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Sunday, 27 May 2012

Atzmon’s Rottweiller, Sarah Gillespie, Attacks Omar Barghouti and Opposes the Boycott and Disruption of Habimah

A Question to the Palestinian Right - Where Does Your Loyalty Lie?  With a Gilad Atzmon or with the Supporters of BDS?

Atzmon and his poisonous friend Sarah Gillespie

Blowing his own trumpet
Omar Barghouti
Atzmon Believes They Should Perform Unmolested - Unlike the Freedom Theatre in Jenin

Gillespies  rang against Omar Barghouti


Zionist poster






When I used to point to the fact that all the arguments of Atzmon led in one direction people tended to be dismissive.  Not any more.  Atzmon's arguments, that to be Jewish is to be a Zionist, that focussing on Jews outside Israel as the cause of Zionism is to look through the telescope from the wrong end, take on a certain relevance now he has come out against BDS.  It let the real criminals off the hook and excuses imperialism and Zionism.  Many people who should have known better asked me 'but surely Atzmon supports the Palestinians.  He even does benefits for Medical Aid for Palestine (no longer!).'

The logic of Atzmon's argument was underwhelming.  Focussing on Jews as Jews, no matter how wretched and abhorrent the Jonathan Hoffmans and Alan Dershowitzes of this world are, was to miss the point.  It isn’t the Zionist cacophony in this country or Aipac in the USA that ‘controls’ Israel, rather it is US geo-political interests and its representation via groups like Christians United for Israel.  Jews provided what was becoming an increasingly thin cover for the US military - industrial complex.

It is no coincidence that when activists are gearing up to picket and protest against Israel’s national theatre, Habimah, Atzmon and his poisonous wretch of a sidekick, Sarah Gillespie, spend their time attacking BDS, in particular making vicious personal attacks on Omar Barghouti,.  Omar is one of the most courageous and principled people I’ve met.  He is a founder of the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI).  Yet he is criticised for studying at Tel Aviv Univesity.  Apparently he should be boycotting his own education.  Perhaps he should boycott Israeli food and starve too!

It was always recognised in South Africa that those we aimed to help and give solidarity to, Black South Africans had no choice but to buy South African goods, to work in their mines etc.  Instead, in the guise of being supermoralists, Atzmon and Gillespie, make demands on Palestinians whilst finding excuses to do nothing themselves.  Indeed this was a prime argument of the supporters of Apartheid in South Africa.  There was nothing they wished to do than discredit the opponents of Apartheid.

PACBI released a statement branding the calls to expel Barghouti as "McCarthyist".   PACBI defended Barghouti by asserting that requiring Palestinians to boycott Israeli universities themselves as a prerequisite to endorsing the BDS call is "an absurd position, given the complete lack of alternatives available" to them and that it would effectively amount to requiring Palestinians to deny themselves education. PACBI's statement also adds that "Nelson Mandela studied law at the Witwatersrand University in Johannesburg, one of the most notorious apartheid institutes then. Similarly, leaders of the anti-colonial resistance movement in India and Egypt, among many other countries, received their education at British universities at the height of the colonial era."  But Atzmon and Gillespie are nothing if not stupid as well as ignorant. 

But let us deal with the question of studying at Tel Aviv University.  Firstly we don’t and never have supported boycotting Israelis as Israelis.  Otherwise we would boycott Israeli anti-Zionist academics.  Absurd.  You don’t boycott friends of the struggle.  In fact we don’t boycott individuals but institutions.  Apart from it being directly discriminatory it makes no sense.  People like Professor Avi Shlaim or Ilan Pappe have contributed enormously to the struggle.  They have provided the analysis and documentation from Israeli archives that have helped us understand the Nakba and what led up to it better.  What purpose would be served by boycotting them?

Boycott is a tactic not an abstract moral value.  I would have, unlike the Zionists who preferred to trade with them, boycotted Nazi Germany.  Why?  To support anti-fascist Germans as well as Jews.  What purpose would have been solved to have boycottted German socialists, those who were not already in Dachau concentration camp?  Even the most wooden-headed moralist would understand the stupidity of that.  What Atzmon and Gillespie are saying is that we should boycott those who suffer most.

Do we say Arab Israelis should boycott Israeli universities?  Of course not.  We demand that Arabs are not discriminated against in Israeli higher education not that they receive no education whatsoever.  When Omar is called a hypocrite for attending an Israeli university by Gillespie, she is doing no more than echoing Zionist propaganda. 

Engage, the anti-boycott Zionist group, set up to oppose the Boycott, has this to say.  In fact it makes exactly the same points as Gillespie: ‘But Barghouti has decided not to boycott Israeli academia himself.  He is now enrolled to study for a PhD at Tel Aviv University.  What is “imperative” for others is, apparently, not quite so “imperative” for himself.’ 

Likewise from another Zionist site we have Omar Barghouti: Apartheid Hypocrite

But none of this is new.  In an interview ‘Tangling with the Oppressor - What really matters is what Palestinians Do’ in  July 5, 2007, just after the academic boycott began in earnest, Atzmon made clear his views on the boycott in an ‘http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2007/07/gilad-atzmon-interview-tangling-with.html with his then friend and collaborator, the anti-Semitic Mary Rizzo:  
‘interfering with academic freedom isn’t exactly something I can blindly advocate. … I am against any form of gatekeeping or book burning. But it goes further, I actually want to hear what Israelis and Zionists have to say. I want to read their books. I want to confront their academics.’ ‘to impose a boycott is to employ a boycotter.'  
To Atzmon it has been a consisten theme:  Boycott is no different from (Nazi) book burning, a line that comes directly from the Zionists again.  But at the time I believed that this might be partly due to the fact that the main proponents of an academic boycott, like Sue Blackwell, were vehement opponents of Atzmon’s anti-Semitism.  Atzmon at that time had been subject to some much criticism.  He continued that ‘When it comes to an academic boycott I would expect the inquisitor in charge to be a scholar of great esteem. This isn’t the case obviously. The reason is simple. As it naturally happens, major intellectuals are engaged in scholarship rather than in union politics, working class and proletarian activity. Seemingly, it isn’t the leading minds in British academic life and ethical thinking who are leading the Boycott. In fact it is the other way around, the boycott is led by some minor academics.’   This was a pointed reference to Dr Sue Blackwell, who at that stage had yet to complete her Ph D thesis.

But I was mistaken.  Atzmon was sincere in his opposition to an academic boycott.

Sarah Gillespie’s doesn’t pretend, like Atzmon, to be an intellectual.  She is his foul-mouthed rottweiller as well as being his ‘musical partner… an incredible musician. But she is also an astonishing writer and a real friend.’

On his new ‘deliberation’ site, Atzmon makes clear his own position:  ‘I think that we should all say NO to Book Burning , Zionist or BDS… the principle is the same and it is always wrong !!!’   And it is clear.  Atzmon is opposed to the ONLY tactic that has the Zionist deligitimisation indusry, the Reut Institute and all the other hasbarists up in arms. 

BDS as was the case in South Africa is the only game in town.  It has all but been outlawed by the Israeli government.  To support boycott in Israel is to court unlimited damages in tort.  This an unprecedented attack on a political opinion and even within the Zionist movement there are those who had taken exception to this attack on the supporters of BDS.  In Britain and the USA even those non-Zionist peace organisations like JfJP and Jewish Voice for Peace, which have been reluctant to support BDS, have realised that without pressure the Israeli government will not reform.  They have slowly but surely moved towards a boycott position as has the Co-operative Group.

Anyone who remembers South Africa knows that it was the Sporting and Cultural Boycotts that led to the economic boycott.  The former attacked the psychological siege mentalit of the Whites, making it clear to them that their practices were disapproved and their days numbered.  So it is with Israel.  Of course the more thick-headed Beitar supporter won’t get it, anymore than the numbskull Afrikaaner die-had did.  But the businessman, the financier, the banker and capitalist certainly do understand it.

If you want to understand the impact of Boycott you could do worse than read the semi-official Egyptian newspaper Al Ahram Peaceful blitzkreig and Israeli counter-attacks

I was pointed to a virulent and venomoys attack on BDS and Omar Barghouti by Gillespie on Ben White’s blog.

I can only pay tribute to both his and Simone McDonnel for the way they kept their cool with the racist ignoramus who makes it clear, as a sub-text, that Omar Barghouti is now also the subject of the Atzmon/Gillespie vendetta for daring to sign the letter Granting no Quarter’ criticising Atzmon’s Zionism and anti-Semitism.

The exchange is interesting, not least for the misconception that the anti-Semitic Gillespie (& Atzmon)  have concerning Boycott.  Gillespie makes her opposition to a Boycott clear when she says that:
‘Prohibiting Israeli actors from performing Shakespeare’s most anti-Semitic play will have zero impact on those suffering in Palestine.  Boycotting goods makes sense, boycotting artists and academics is a form of book burning.’ 
She too characterises Boycott as book-burning, something the Zionists aren’t shy of alleging.  But the idea that it ‘will have zero impact on those suffering in Palestine’ is a lie.  Anything which demoralises the Afrikaaner in the Israeli psyche cannot help but undermine the settler spirit.

And then we have the absurdity of Gillespie’s position.  ‘Following the logic of the cultural/academic boycott we wouldk have to boycott   Palestinian BDS campaigner Omar Barghouti who currently studies in Tel Aviv University.  We would also have to boycott Shlmo Sands who’s done more than anyone to dismantle the nation of belonging to a ‘chosen land.’….’  Of course this is twaddle.  The aim of a Boycott is to lend support to Arab Israelis and campaigners like Omar Barghouti, not to further intensify the oppression they experience.  And likewise we do not boycott Israeli anti-Zionists.  In fact we do not boycott Israelis unless it is because of their overt racism.  Ze’ev Sternhell is a Zionist.  He considers himself, rightly to be an anti-fascist and was the target of a bomb attack by settlers, injuring him, a year ago.  I would oppose a boycott of him.  He is wrong about Zionism but to boycott him would be wrong.

Simone McDonnel asks: 'Why would OB and SS have to be boycottted specifically?  I don’t think that follows the cultural/academic boycott at all.  The boycott is on institutions, not individuals, and as you mention Sands and Barghouti play an exceptional role in undermining the racism and crimes of the apartheid state and institutions in which they study/work.’  Unanswerable logic but we then see the real agenda of Rottweiller Gillestpie.

Just like the good Engage-style Zionist she is, Gillespie attacks the ‘Hypocrite Barghouti’ for being a student at Tel-Aviv University.  Ludicrously she suggests, following her own lack of logic that ‘The boycott of Israel academia must invariably include both figures.’   And we come to the crux of her concerns.  ‘I certainly don’t recall the Apartheid regime enjoying the most powerful lobby group in the US.  I don’t recall the Apartheid Friends of Labour Org in the UK – nor do I recall British lawyers abandoning Universal Jurisdiction   to allow SA leaders to trvel freely.  In short, Israel is uique in that it is maintained by Zionists across the globe on the Left and the Right.  Boycottting academics and artists who happen to be born within the permiters of Israeli sovereignty is futile.  Who cares if some art-house Israeli movie gets refused from European film festivals when you’ve got Steven Spielberg’s Munich growwing  $130,358,911 worldwide?’

Well Palestinians care.  And I don't recall South African politicians ever being subject to the fear of arrest.  They didn't need a lobby but they did have one in the financial and commercial world.

And there you have it.  It is Jews as Jews, like Spielberg who should really be boycotted. This is indeed an anti-Semitic boycott.  And furthermore, it is counterposed to a boycott of Israel.  It is Jews outside Israel who are responsible for Israel’s actions.  It is they, not Israel, which should be boycottted.  Simone McDeonnell is nothing if not patient.
As for cultural boycotts being futile.  I find it confusing that anyone who is pro-palestinian and anti-zionist would not support mass campaigns that expose Israel and it's apartheid crimes to the world.When the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra was interrupted by pro palestine protestors in London last year it made world-wide news, and it is evident in the past few years, that campaigns like BDS are drawing attention to Israel and it's brutalities in a way that is shifting opinions. The mass protests against the Springbok Rugby team (South Africa) around the world and other such boycotts of South African sporting/cultural/academic projects etc, contribtuted significantly to world-wide condemnation of the SA aparthied regime, strenghtening the resolve of SA workers to smash it.’
I couldn’t put it better though I don’t know if Simone is aware of the background of Gillespie and her virulent anti-Semitic background.  But she is absolutely correct.  The disruption of the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra was indeed a massive success.  So successful that they threatened never to come back to the UK!! 

But this is nothing new. When BDS activists disrupted the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra Atzmon’s sent me the following e-mail (Thursday, 22 September 2011, 17:00): 
‘We loved your opposition and we also loved your Jewish campaign against the Jewish philharmony is never boring you :)’  and later the same night Atzmon explained his hostility to the Albert Hall action.

‘Do you really think that BDS enthusiasts are blind to your Judeo centric actions and motivations? How are you going to protect Pls artists from similar Zionist actions... tragically, you are not Pls solidarity campaigners, you are merely anti Zionists.’
The question is how long a few Palestinians are going to continue to give support to the Zionist Atzmon whose association with the Palestinians has more to do with his ego than the Palestinians.  Atzmon’s only support to the Palestinians has been to play at charitable concerts, which we have never picketted, though we would prefer groups not to use an anti-Semite to raise funds.  But now Atzmon and his side-kick Gillespie are actively scabbing on the BDS campaign and also attacking the key person who had been identified with that campaign, Omar Barghouti.

The question Professor Samir Abed-Rabbo, Sameh Habeeb, Ramzi Baroud and others need to answer is a simple one.  Where does your loyalty lie?  To a racist Israeli émigré or to the cause of Boycott Divestment and Sanctions and those, like Omar and Ali Abunimah who have consistently fought to build it.  Are you willing to continue to be used and flattered in the cause of Israel?

27 comments:

joe90 kane said...

Don't you just love it when thicko racist Holocaust denier Atzmon and his merry band of morons equate Palestinians and BDS with Nazi atrocities, a tactic so beloved of the fanatical worshippers of the Israeli state.

Anonymous said...

Ignorant tonyle....... it ain't a trumpet what your mind see........
Same sick obsessed mind that explores reality.......

Tony Greenstein said...

You're just a Zionist Atzmon and a dishonest one who doesn't even have the guts to post under his own name. I think the 'joke' about Tonyle has worn thin, apart from the fact that no one gets it.

Zionists equate BDS with the Boycott of Jews under Hitler and so do you. The only difference is you deny the holocaust you summon to your defence. Pathetic, you and your rotweiller

Gert said...

Tony:

I hadn’t heard from this Gillespie woman ever before, nor did I now of her association with Atzie. But is:

”I couldn’t put it better though I don’t know if Simone is aware of the background of Gillespie and her virulent anti-Semitic background.”

…based on anything other than her association with the Wandering Antisemite or is there more? I googled her and found only two references to her antisemitism, both suspect because coming from quarters that could find AS in an empty cookie jar.

From her badly penned ‘In defence of Gilad Arsie’:

”Unfortunately for them, too many people understand that Gilad is on an intellectual quest for truth. According to the Greek historian Herodotos, quoted above, this is most humane thing you can ever hope to do. We can not be banned from playing, from writing or form ‘wondering who’ we are. Lest we forget, the word ‘history’ comes from an ancient Greek verb meaning ‘to ask’. “

T’is to be hoped that girlfriend won’t follow in Gilad’s footsteps of ‘free [COUGH!]’ ‘inquiry’ into the Holocaust… An Eisen/Atzmon/Gillespie threesome as it were!

Clearly Atzie is trying to drive a wedge into the Palestinian solidarity movement, largely out of spite with those who snub him. Meanwhile the Zionists are enjoying the spectacle. Still, if it means losing dead weights like Ramzi Baroud then that’s not a bad thing…

Anonymous said...

Yes we do!!

Can't stand the man. So full of himself and for what? spending his life trying to finish off his own nation's ones.

Anonymous said...

Tonyle
I see your ever faithful Sancho Panza aka Gert has mounted his donkey . Speaking of Panza , you must be looking forward to your taking your place in the the Belly of the Beast once again tomorrow . Home from home so to speak .

Tony Greenstein said...

Trying to finish off his nation's ones? Nation's what? The Jews aren't a nation nor are the Israelis and Atzmon is your best friend. Why are you Zionists so thick. Back in the days of Herzl, there was an understanding that 'the anti-Semites will be our best friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies' pp.83/4 Diaries of T Herzl.

Unfortunately today's Zionists are ignoramuses. Their only resort is to naked power not realising that no state survives if it loses the consent of the civilised world.

Donkey's Atzmon? Not only do you have a menagerie of animals trailing you - lapdog Laua Stuart (born with no brain), Frances Clarke Lowes (has a brain but long since gave up trying to use it) Gillespie (vicious Rotweiller) and others, but those who step out of line and tell the truth about you get chopped and sent to that special place reserved in hell Atzmonite for sinners against our latter day Lord Atzmon.

Gert said...

Anon:

The only reason why your comments are allowed here (whoever you are) is that they're a testament to the utter vileness, vacuity and ignorance of so many 'grassroots' Zionists. I'd plaster your comment in my archive ('Things gutter Zionists say') but you need to stoop a little lower still.

Com'on, you know you can do it!

Over at Millett's I've a Zionutzie and settler who's obsessed with where I live. The nut can't even see how racist it is to condemn someone for living in the NE of England. These then, are the defenders of Judaism!

Anonymous said...

I wonder if you really understand their resistance to having writers and musicians boycotted, Tony. Could it be that as musicians, they see themselves threatened in any boycotting of musicians and writers? Gillespie has some talent (her band has more that she does) and her affiliation with Atzmon brings he notoriety that she would never receive on her own. But what a price to pay. Hanging with a Jew hating holocaust denier just to get some attention for her music. Sad really.

Atzmon's post-adolescent band of malcontent Jew haters at deLiberation are an excellent reflection of his inner demons, and his bigotry. Atzmon's ego is monstrous, as can be seen by his needing two websites to present it to the world. One website is dedicated to him only. You can go there and he will inform you that he is the world's greatest sax player. He does not allow comments there, as they in their negativity would not reflect his assumption of self-superiority.

His other website, deLiberation, is a place where his half-wit personality cult of followers can echo each other in their Atzmon inspired hatred of "The Jew." In that little Stormfront-Lite website, Jews are blamed for all the ills of the world, going back several thousand years. deLiberation claims to be a place where discussions can be carried out on any topic. But watch what happens when a non-Anti-Semite steps into the fray: 10 of his faithful followers line up to beat-down the interloper, and when they have had all the fun they can with the unfortunate individual, Jew hating Jonathon Blakeley ceremoniously blocks the individuals ability to comment, and they slap each other on the backs in triumph, while hanging out waiting for their next victim to wander in.

deLiberation -- a sad example of a Stromfront-Lite echo chamber -- also serves as advertisement for Atzmon and Gillespie in their musical efforts. Atzmon controls what is put on the site, and has final veto on what is or is not printed. But he is perfectly happy to have even the most outrageous Jew hatred displayed in its pages, and approves of it being there. His followers are ill-equipped intellectually to make sense of the world around them, and in their malcontent natures, they look for scapegoats to take the blame for their disappointments in life. The Jew must be blamed for the unhappiness they see in the mirror. It is a twisted combination of Stormfront-Lite, and Gilad Atzmon cult of personality. But mostly it's just a bunch of sad malcontents looking for someone to blame for their failures in life. Keep up the good work, Tony.

Tony Greenstein said...

I agree with the last comment in its entirety. I certainly do understand Atzmon's fear of the implications of boycotting racists!

But that is what Palestinians are calling for and we have to respond. What is shows is that the great supporter of the Palestinians judges everything from his own perspective and has no hesitation in attacking BDS.

He is fast losing what little support he had amongst supporters of the Palestinians and Palestinians themselves, except for the worst quislings.

Anonymous said...

Gillespie is slightly more talented than Atzmon. At least she writes songs instead of spurting tuneless noise through a saxophone. Pathetic. They should launch their own holocaust denier 'music' festival and get Eisen on drums. Good stuff Tony.
Max

Gert said...

I haven’t paid much attention of lately to Atzie’s deranged deLiberation website but a quick refresher course revealed this by the unfathomably stupid Jeff Blankfort:

http://www.deliberation.info/jeff-blankfort-to-anti-zionist-zionist-gabriel-ash/

”As for Greenstein, he has written that attacks on the pro-Israel Lobby “are the first step towards holocaust denial.” You certainly are in fine company, Gabriel.

[my snip]

Successive generations have become only more sophisticated. Leftist Jews from the various Marxist and Trotskyist organizations made sure that the Palestinian issue would be segregated from all the other people’s liberation struggles–even while claiming to be anti-Zionist (a word for me that has lost all meaning)–and this lasted up until the first US war on Iraq and then their bleats were limited to that ridiculous slogan that most Americans do not understand, “End the Occupation!” Not a word about stopping US aid to Israel, not a word about AIPAC or the pro-Israel Lobby and when I started speaking about it in the 80s, I found myself marginalized, not only by the faux Jewish solidarity activists but by Palestinian groups, as well, whose leaders had been thoroughly colonized by the Jewish activists and by that pied piper of disinformation. Noam Chomsky, who even Israel Shahak, his old friend, had to admit, served AIPAC’s cause. Not surprisingly, no Jew would debate me regarding the Lobby. Chomsky, even when we were on friendly terms, Joel Beinin, Phyllis Bennis, Mitchell Plitnick and the JVP crowd. Chomsky, Beinin and Bennis, said the same thing, “it wouldn’t be useful.” To whom they didn’t say but I can tell you.
What Gilad has provided is an explanation for this phenomenon and the hysterical responses to what he has written from Jews such as yourself, from Greenstein and Weizfeld and the earlier railing against him by the International Anti-Zionist Jewish Network confirms his theory for which, I assume, he is much appreciative. I have read his book and while I don’t agree with all his conclusions, I do agree with the most important, his analysis of Jewish identity and the problems it creates in the political sphere and not only for the Palestinians. If you do not think that the build-up for a war against Iran and the draconian sanctions against that country and its people have been directed by Jews, inside and outside of the US government, on Israel’s behalf, you are not only in denial, you are part of the problem. If you do not think that the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in 1948, followed by the 1967 war, and the decades of occupation and dispossession of the Palestinians, are primarily the responsibility of Israeli Jews and their supporters internationally, you are part of the problem since, whatever else you may say or do, you are providing protective cover for the perpetrators.”


Ringdingdingding. My ears are ringing. So much abject ridiculousness in one man.

The indomitable Roy ‘I’m not an antisemite but I ‘heart’ Atzmon’ Bard hangs out there day and night it would appear. Some are questioning Blankfort’s memory. Like cracked colander, I’m guessing.

Tony Greenstein said...

Deranged is the right word. I've never said anything like this, it is a complete forgery and I notice, thanks to Atzmon, that someone has asked for the source and it hasn't been provided, not surprisingly.

But Atzmon is fast losing what support he had by attacking the boycott of Habima. He's got no cred. now amongst those activists who did think he had something to say. He is on a self-destruct mission.

Gert said...

Some of these deLiberation posts should be sent Mearsheimer, Falk, Robert Wyatt and other Atzie apologists who think he’s a great mind. There’s a post by Paul Eisen about Muhammad Ali and it’s just UNBELIEVABLE. The puerilest nonsense that makes Roswell conspiracy theorists look comparatively sane. This is Atzmon the Free Thinker at work. ‘Free Inquiry’ for the lobotomised.

Sorry, but I can’t really get over it.

Tony Greenstein said...

One should never make the mistake of assuming that academics are intelligent. Often the more you know about 1 particular area the less u know about the rest.

Political science is a bogus subject anyway so any charlatan can get away with string a few thoughts together

joe90 kane said...

Thanks for that Gert about the latest rantings of the UK director of Adolf Hitler Remembered.

Once again, paedophilia rears its ugly head amongst the deranged gang of neo-nazis and Holocaust deniers that are Atzmon's camp followers.

The old Brownshirts and our own beloved BNP are noted for their pre-occupations in that area. Maybe Gilad Atzmon and his Brown House Ensemble should organise a benefit gig for adult men prone to paedophile thoughts whilst reminiscing affectionately about their dead beloved fuhrer.

Anonymous said...

Interesting tangled web of anti-all manner of things and anti-anti- that I didn't realize existed just from reading stuff on a few Jewish and Palestinian sites.
One question for now:
why are Palestinians asked at the top of the blog to declare their loyalty for either your group or Atzmon's? You seem to assume you or the other warring party have to lead them.
Why shouldn't the Palestinians ignore both you and let you Jews/ex-Jews squabble among yourselves?

Gert said...

Anon:

Because it's not about 'Jews/ex-Jews', is it?

You seem to be implying that Jews should not show solidarity with Palestinians because they're Jews? Sounds a tad antisemitic to me.

Try a dose of Universalism instead.

Anonymous said...

C'mon Gert,
It was not such a difficult question. Take the blinders off and try again: why should the Palestinians have to declare "loyalty" to either of these two Jewish-led groups?

Gert said...

Who is asking them to? Does ANYONE want ANY Palestinians to support (N)Atzie? Why?

So , 'C'mon Anon', what are you blathering on about?

Tony Greenstein said...

The Palestine solidarity movement is led by activists whose religion, if any, is irrelevant. Only Atzmon is obsessed by whether someone is Jewish or not. Jewish groups specifically operate to deflect the Zionist charge of 'anti-Semitism' and with great success. That is what makes Anon take a pretended middle ground.

No one asks Palestinians to support any solidarity group. We just ask them not to support Atzmon and his fascist/anti-Semitic buddies. Is that too difficult to understand?

Anonymous racist said...

'The Palestine solidarity movement is led by activists whose religion, if any, is irrelevant." Then why do you call yourself Jews for this and Jews for that? And by what statistical odds do you end up on top of all these groups? " Only Atzmon is obsessed by whether someone is Jewish or not." Skirmish among yourselves all you want, there is no big diff between you. You are all self-obsessed Jews- your past sell date claptrap on antisemitism and his self-important decrees on 'AZZs' are equally useless to Palestinians. "No one asks Palestinians to support any solidarity group. We just ask them not to support Atzmon and his fascist/anti-Semitic buddies.Is that too difficult to understand? It's easy to understand its a lie. We have 2 margarine brands on sale--were not asking you to choose, just not to buy B. Your not so dumb not to see that but you go ahead and lie anyway. Guess what-Palestinians dont need to support either of you [deleted].

Tony Greenstein said...

I've reposted anon's comments without some foul-mouthed racism which isn't allowed on here.

It's pretty obvious dunderhead why we call ourselves 'Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods'. It's called koshering the boycott or, in other words, deflecting charges of anti-Semitism by putting ourselves at the forefront.

Of course to Internet warrior like anon then this makes no sense but since he has probably never done anything other than mouth off he'll have to accept that it is effective, as the Zionists' squeals testify to.

I'm glad you find it easy to understand that we don't ask those we are in solidarity with to 'support' us - but if anon thinks it's a lie, give chapter or verse or shut up.

When you disrupt Habima or the Israeli Philharmonic you aren't selling margarine. But if you are a useless commentator on the sidelines you wouldn't know that would you?

Gert said...

I guess this sums up the level of the Atzmonites. Anon should go and be a pen pal to deRanged. Lovely bunch of nutters to play with in the sand pit.

Anonymous said...

TG--By claiming that you deleted "foul-mouthed racism which isn't allowed on here" from my post, you proved yourself to be a liar.
What I wrote was
"self-obsessed Jews"
Show it, if you are not a coward and then explain why a simple, factual description of you and your alleged foes is racists.
...

"Koshering the boycott"?!?! Palestinians don't need to be kosherized. They need you to get the hell out, that's all. Now is that so hard to understand?
So we should be grateful that you made yourselves feel good by making empty gestures in a theater?
Go kosherize yourselves some more.

Tony Greenstein said...

Well that is racist since a particular section of the Palestine solidarity movement is being targetted because they are of Jewish origin. I'm sorry u don't see it. More to the point why not give you name or are you afraid to put a name to such sentiments.

If you consider they are merely 'empty gestures in a theatre' fine, but that wasn't the view of Palestinians themselves unlike you. Who gave you right right to speak on behalf of Palestinians?

Another self-obsessed Atmonite.

No one has say dear idiot that the Palestinians need to be kosherised but who better than anti-Zionist Jews to rebut charges of anti-Semitism? Well the Zionists certainly understand the point even if the thicker of the Palestinians' 'supporters' don't.

Or are you just a quisling? Hard to tell really

Anonymous said...

Due to a little more Zionist racist abuse [deleted], which makes me suspect this is a Zionist masquerading as a Palestinian, I have included most points of Anon as well as a rebuttal.

TG


"More to the point why not give you name or are you afraid to put a name to such sentiments." [deleted] Cant you deal with opinions unless you take names or attack the person speaking?

TG: It's a question of honesty that's all. If you don't wish to give your name or even a pseudonym then we have even less clue as to whom you are. That's all.

'Who gave you right right to speak on behalf of Palestinians?' I don't need to be kosherized or be 'given' rights.

TG: No one said you did, whatever kosherising an individual is. You have all the rights you want, including the right to pretend to represent other Palestinians (assuming you are not an impostor). And I have the right to challenge such claims.

Are you incomfortable with unappointed speakers?

TG: Not at all, just want to find out who you are claiming you are unappointed to speak on behalf of!

'Another self-obsessed Atmonite.' You are obsessed with each other and deserve each other--self-obsessed jews, or is that 'racist'?

TG: I've said yes, do you have difficulty understanding spoken English? Being Jewish is irrelevant to being self-obsessed, assuming I am.


"No one has say dear idiot that the Palestinians need to be kosherised but who better than anti-Zionist Jews to rebut charges of anti-Semitism?" Who better indeed. You have no sense of irony, dear Superior one.

TG: There's nothing ironic about your gibberish. There is a political struggle and people like you are irrelevant to it, because despite your accusations you are the one who is self-obsessed.

TG: Anti-Zionist Jews are indeed in a more powerful position to rebut charges of 'anti-Semitism'. But you are too thick to understand that.

" Well the Zionists certainly understand the point even if the thicker of the Palestinians' 'supporters' don't." They, meaning you, the lot of zionists and cross-dressed zionists understand each other, of course.

TG: No fool. The Zionists understand the point of being challenged on their claim to represent all Jews. I'll leave cross-dressing to you as a quisling.

We, thick and thickER Palestinians do not.

TG: I doubt if there are many Palestinians as thick as you (assuming you aren't a Zionist of course)!