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Thursday, 3 June 2010

Zionist Federation & fascist EDL Join Hands in Supporting Israel's Murder at Sea

Jonathan Hoffman of the Zionist Federation Defends Allowing Fascists to Take Part to Tonight I went to a demonstration outside the Israeli Embassy in London. The couple of hundred pro-Palestinian demonstrators faced a counter-demonstration. This was a demonstration which the EDL had announced in advance it would join. Despite knowing this the Zionist Federation and Jonathan Hoffman made no attempt whatsoever to prevent the fascist EDL from taking part.

So despite Jonathan Hoffman's hystrionics and abuse (see below) this was effectively a joint demonstration between Jonathan Hoffman’s Zionist Federation and the English Defence League.

At no point and at no time did the Zionist Federation or Jonathan Hoffman issue a warning to the EDL that they were not welcome and would be prevented from taking part in the demonstration and if they did manage to slip in would be removed. This in itself speaks volumes.

The fascist-supported Zionist Federation demonstration was about 300 strong. The reason for the relatively poor numbers among the pro-Palestinians was partly because Palestine Solidarity Campaign and the Stop The War Coalition had both decided not to support the Palestinian demonstration in ‘order to avoid conflict’.


Cowardice rather than prudence might seem a better description for allowing a Zionist-Fascist demonstration to dictate our tactics and protest.

But we should not be surprised. Either at the PSC leadership's behaviour or indeed that of the moving right ex-SWP group led by John Rees, which controls the StWC.

What is surprising is that the Zionist Federation now feels so politically isolated that it is prepared to accept the support of the EDL. And tonight we had the spectacle of stewards of the Community Security Trust, ostensibly devoted to opposing anti-semitism, raising no objection to the anti-Semites of the EDL . Of course the EDL are not anti-Zionists and therefore that makes it acceptable. The obvious thing to do, Dave Rich's comments notwithstanding, would have been for the CST to say it would not steward an event where there was ANY presence of fascists or the EDL, but then they might have had to exclude their own Kahanists.

And why has the Zionist Federation’s very own Oliver Hardy been allowed to get them into another fine mess? Because the current lunatic campaign by Hoffman and friends tries attempts the impossible. No amount of spin or hasbara will convince people that an attack on humanitarian ships delivering aid, in international waters, by Israel’s elite Shayetet 13 naval squadron was a peaceable exercise and that it was only the resistance to these pirates which was violent. Why they’ve even displayed knives to prove that they are only telling the whole truth! Presumably they were trying to smuggle knives into Gaza. A new secret weapon In fact ships, like most homes, do possess knives – to eat with, to cut and prepare food and to cut ropes etc. Collecting them all together doesn’t make the mission a war-like one! Previous boats made the trip without any incidents of violence or indeed allegations to that effect by Israel. But the clincher is the 9-19 people who were killed by these peace loving Israelis.

Despite his denials, I have no hesitation, in view of his record of repeating every Israeli lie that is on offer, in believing that Jonathan Hoffman gave an interview to a woman reporter in which he openly defended demonstrating with the EDL as ‘there was no proof of any link with the BNP.’ That would also explain his refusal to give support to the Harrow counter-demonstration against the EDL (they were using the building of a local mosque as the pretext for their presence there) unless Muslims agreed to support Israel!

Presumably the fact that the EDL have repeatedly been photographed giving sieg heil salutes is not enough to make it clear they are not welcome? In fact there is copious evidence that the EDL and BNP members work hand in hand.


Tony Greenstein

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Another despicable ad hominem lie. I told the journalist from "Race Today" (I think that was the name of the paper) that insofar as there was crossover between EDL and BNP they were to be abhorred. And that the ZF disassociated itself from any racists who were there..

Seems that your presence last night was so pathetic that you have to resort to as hominem mendacious smears. It says it all, Greenstein. If you can't win an argument, you make it up.

Jonathan Hoffman

Dave Rich said...

For the record, there are a few errors of fact in your post which need to be set straight, in particular this sentence:

"tonight we had the spectacle of stewards of the Community Security Trust, ostensibly devoted to opposing anti-semitism, jointly organising a counter-demonstration with the anti-Semites of the EDL."

1. CST did not organise or jointly organise last night's demonstration. It was organised solely by the Zionist Federation. CST provided security as we do at approximately 1,000 Jewish events of all types throught the year.

2. The EDL played no role in organising or stewarding last night's demo and, from what I can tell, they were barely present. The Jewish Chronicle report (http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/32425/hundreds-demonstrate-israel-london) says that there was one EDL member spotted and we concur with this estimate. The people in your photographs are not, to my knowledge, EDL members.

3. CST has never and would never work with the EDL in any way. Our view is that they are a violent, racist organisation in a tradition of far right violent bigotry. We have made this very clear in our public statements and on our blog, eg:
http://thecst.org.uk/blog/?p=555
http://thecst.org.uk/blog/?p=686
http://thecst.org.uk/blog/?p=963

Far from working with such groups, when the SIOE demonstrated outside Harrow Mosque last year, we advised the mosque on their security and stewarding before the event.

I know that you do not like CST and I do not expect your view of us to change, but in the interest of fairness and accuracy I would ask you to stop spreading the totally baseless and untrue allegation that CST (or any other mainstream Jewish or pro-Israeli organisation for that matter) cooperates with the EDL. This is a lie that is extremely damaging to ordinary, mainstream British Jews. It is also, coincidentally, Nick Griffin's view of the EDL (that they are Zionist stooges).

Dave Rich
CST

Anonymous said...

"Jonathan Hoffman of the Zionist Federation Defends Joint Demonstration with Fascists"

This is a Lie. Not the first one. You will take it down now. I shall be speaking to a lawyer.

Jonathan Hoffman

joe90 kane said...

Just to let you know TG
some zionist calling themselves 'Bob Rich' has turned up on Socialist Unity questioning your version of events -
Strange Bedfellows
SU
02 June 2010

all the best

Gert said...

Wow, never were things clearer...

Tony Greenstein said...

I have made a number of changes to the article, not because Jonathan Hoffman is going to talk to a lawyer (I do it every day!) but because it is important to obtain maximum accuracy in a story like this.

I therefore accept it wasn't jointly organised between the EDL and the ZF and that was hyperbole. But the main point I was making is that the Zionist Federation had no OBJECTION to the participation of the EDL.

And ironically JH confirms that in his denial. What a strange formulation he gives us:
'insofar as there was crossover between EDL and BNP they were to be abhorred'. So in other words, if there isn't a cross over then it doesn't matter much.

As for the ZF dissociating itself from any racists who were there. Well Jonathan. How do you dissociate yourself from yourself? The whole point and purpose of your demonstration was racist. It talked about freeing Gazans from Hamas (by starving them!). I think those who live in Gaza have made it abundantly clear that given the choice they support Hamas over what Israel does. Therefore your treatment of them, they don't know what's best for them, is a typically racist attitude.

Tony Greenstein said...

As for Dave Rich. I accept the demonstration was organised solely by the Zionist Federation. However, despite knowing in advance, they raised no objection to the EDL presence.

You say they were 'barely' there and that you concur with the Jewish Chronicle estimate of one. Well it's still one too many. When the NF used to try and turn up to Palestine Solidarity demonstrations were refused to accept any presence and in fact Roland Rance was arrested and I was nearly arrested for physically preventing them marching with us. It is strange that your stewards took no action against them nor did you make it clear to the Zionist Federation that they should make it clear.

I don't know whether or not the BNP do believe the EDL to be 'zionist stooges'. Certainly there is no doubt that there is a considerable overlap between the BNP and EDL, as one would expect. And if EDL are Zionist stooges, a concept I don't agree with anyway, then what of the BNP which is equally as vociferously pro-Zionist.

But this begs the main question of course, which is why it is that the EDL and BNP both find Israel such an attractive state and what does that say about Zionism? After all, when the NF and similar groups described themselves as 'anti-Zionist' in the past, we were clear that this was a cover for 'anti-Zionism.' You don't seem to be able to explain away why they love Israel so.

Incidentally CST may have given the Harrow mosque advice last year on stewarding etc. but Jonathan Hoffman refused to support opposition to the EDL in Harrow when asked.

Anonymous said...

As you know your article remains untruthful and your presumption that I must waste my time correcting the lies is pure theft.

It is headlined “Jonathan Hoffman of the Zionist Federation Defends Allowing Fascists to Take Part In …”

Nowhere have I done that.

“At no point and at no time did the Zionist Federation or Jonathan Hoffman issue a warning to the EDL that they were not welcome and would be prevented from taking part in the demonstration and if they did manage to slip in would be removed.”

That is wrong. The ZF issued a Press Notice and an email to all its supporters informing them that the EDL might be there and disassociating the ZF from the EDL and saying that they would be allocated their own area.

“Hoffman gave an interview to a woman reporter in which he openly defended demonstrating with the EDL as ‘there was no proof of any link with the BNP.’ “

That is wrong. I never said that. I said that there was crossover between the EDL and BNP and that therefore the EDL were not welcome. Either you have misquoted me or your “journalist” (?) friend has. Please provide the link to her publication so I can check.

“That would also explain his refusal to give support to the Harrow counter-demonstration against the EDL (they were using the building of a local mosque as the pretext for their presence there) unless Muslims agreed to support Israel!”

Another lie. I expressed pleasure that Jews had been at the Harrow Central Mosque to defend it from the EDL and expressed the hope that “the members of the Harrow Central Mosque will be there to help us at the next antisemitic Amnesty or BRICUP meeting.”

Nothing “conditional” about supporting the Harrow counter-demonstration.

I have a long and proud record opposing the BNP. Ask Weyman Bennett of UAF. Ask him about what I did in Oxford when the Union invited Nick Griffin. Ask him what I did in the London Mayoral elections in 2008. Then hang your head in shame. You will not apologise because only decent people admit their mistakes.

“Jonathan Hoffman refused to support opposition to the EDL in Harrow when asked.”

I do not remember being asked. And anyway I never do forced condemnations. But the idea that I would support an organisation that has BNP members is a figment of your twisted and sick imagination Greenstein.

Greenstein – you have got it in for Israel, for me and for the ZF. It’s a free world, you are entitled to your bizarre behaviour.

But you are not entitled to lie about me, cyberstalk me and steal my time.

Jonathan Hoffman

Commenter said...

The only thing Hoffman shares with EDL is to cause tension and fear of Muslims, but no one is save from EDL publicists including gays and lesbians whose flags are also becoming noticeable including that of Jamaica.

Interesting to note the placards accusing the fallen activists of having been armed to the tooth and deserving. You can't get more callous than that.

JCall said...

Hoffman is a mendacious piece of work. He supported the EDL in its anti-Muslim demo in Harrow. Just look at what he wrote to the Harrow rabbi on the JC's blog.
He's a fascist who parrots the line put out by the anti-Arab Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and his lying deputy, Danny Ayalon.

Tony Greenstein said...

Jonathan Hoffman at 06.27:

'I told the journalist from "Race Today" (I think that was the name of the paper) that insofar as there was crossover between EDL and BNP they were to be abhorred.'

Jonathan Hoffman at
"That is wrong. I never said that. I said that there was crossover between the EDL and BNP and that therefore the EDL were not welcome." 19.10

The question is which JH is to be believed!

'Another lie. I expressed pleasure that Jews had been at the Harrow Central Mosque to defend it from the EDL and expressed the hope that “the members of the Harrow Central Mosque will be there to help us at the next antisemitic Amnesty or BRICUP meeting.”

Exactly. You linked opposition to the EDL to Muslim support for Zionism. Because there is no anti-Semitism in either Amnesty International or Bricup. In fact nearly all of Bricup's leadership seems to be Jewish.

It is this constant and consistent lie that 'anti-Semitism = anti-Zionism' which leads us to ask these questions. The fact is that the BNP is the most pro-Zionist party in Britain. It is also a fact that in France and elsehwere large numbers of pro-Zionist Jews vote for the far-right.

We also know this happened in the past in Hackney (read Geoffrey Alderman's book on The Jewish Community in British Politics.

I don't care much for Weyman Bennett or his political judgement. The Zionist Federation has never supported any mobilisation against the BNP and I can remember back 40 years to when the NF was founded. 'go to Israel' was the constant refrain of Zionists. It can't be fought etc.

Yes I've got it in for Zionism and Israel. They purport to speak in my name when they commit their massacres and abominations - and murdering aid workers on a ship is the lowest of the low. And supporting that murder, because those who were on it had all their cameras and recording equipment confiscated (but they still got the message out via satellite) because a few people resisted armed men with machine guns on the basis of Israel's spliced video tapes and no doubt erasure of anything to the contrary, is just sick.

But no, I don't have it in for you personally JH. I even wrote to the Jewish Chronicle defending you against your Zionist critics!

As for cyberstalking you me and stealing your time. I can only suggest that you report me to the Police for both these offenes.

'Yes your honour, the defendant Mr Tony Greenstein is charged under Section 5X of the Theft Act 1969 with stealing 15 minutes of the aforesaid Mr Jonathan Hoffman's time.' How do u plead Mr Greenstein?

Not guilty!

joe90 kane said...

JCall mentions blog comments on the Jewish Chronicle website by someone calling himself 'Jonathan Hoffman'.

Here is an excellent blog article with the quote and a link to it -
The Harrowing Tales of Hoffman
RandomPottins
2009

Here is the quotation in full -
'Excellent. I'm sure the members of the Harrow Central Mosque will be there to help us at the next antisemitic Amnesty or BRICUP meeting. Maybe you and Rabbi Frank Dabba Smith will be there too as well as "the surrounding Liberal and Reform communities"'.
Jonathan Hoffman 14 December, 2009 - 23:51

The JC blog 'Jonathan Hoffman' isn't exactly fulsome in his praise of opposition to the EDL march on Harrow Mosque. More like qualified support, but who for exactly?

His opposition to the EDL seems to be conditional, and not outright - unlike the Jonathan Hoffman here on TG's blog who is adamant that he is totally opposed to the EDL/BNP.

Are these 2 Jonathan Hoffman's related by any chance?

joe90 kane said...

Sorry for serial comments
but someone on Socialist Unity just left a link to this -
English Defence League (EDL) Jewish Division
Facebook

Enjoy.

just passing said...

Cyber Overtures from Hell - Part the Deux:

http://www.facebook.com/EnglishDefenceLeagueJewishDivision

Dave Rich said...

Tony

The EDL person who was spotted was not in the demonstration but observing from outside. It was in a public place and as you know we do not have the power to move people on. We did make it clear that we did not want EDL people in the demonstration as did the ZF.

You still have photographs on this post that wrongly identify people as members of the EDL. This puts them in danger and if you have any ethics as an anti-fascist you will remove them immediately.

Commenter said...

They say there is no smoke without fire, and surely my suspicions about the gay and lesbian flags is now confirmed by the fact that there is definitely LGBT EDL. I smelt Jewish EDL from day one, so I am not bothered with them. Only naive people use to ignore me and I am glad they found it now than late.

Anonymous said...

I was at the ZF event. At no point did I see anyone from the EDL. When we heard rumours they were coming, the reactions I had (and so did everyone I spoke to) was, "Oh, no, please don't let them show up, we don't want them here, it is against what we as Jews stand for." So I don't know where you're getting your version of events.

Tony Greenstein said...

Dave,

I dont' know who you are other than you are clearly an employee of the CST. Presumably you are playing hard and soft man with Mark Gardener.

You say I have wrongly identified as EDL others. If you believe this so then you should contact me privately on my e-mail which CST has, and not the e-mail associated with this blog.

But a more general point. Leaving aside that I don't have, as you say, any love for the CST. You say you don't have power to move people on etc. but we know from our own experience that anti-Zionists who ask questions at meetings where CST is about are physiclly attacked and removed and that CST stewards at events believe they possess powers such as to ask people for film they have taken of them on a public street. So it seems that in some instances you believe you do have the power.

The more important point is that you are appealing to me as an anti-fascist. But the demonstration which you were protecting (from whom I wonder?) was nothing less than a glorification of the cold-blooded murder of peace activists by the Israeli military, armed to the teeth.

It is little wonder that the EDL and BNP have been wetting themselves over this, a kind of orgasmic delight. The kind that I have read when they talk about lynchings of Black people. The joy expressed over starving a million people and murdering those who came to help them are such that I consider any steward of the demonstration pretty much the same as fascist scum anyway.

And as EDL made clear, they were intending to turn up, according to the Jewish EDL site they did turn up and I'm not prepared to accept you word that they merely monitored when we absolutely know that there is now linkage between elements in the Jewish community and the far right, not just EDL.

That is what you should be drawing attention to, and that is why I have no doubt that CST is a flag of convenience set up for entirely different purposes than those it declares - as you know.

If the individuals are, as you say not EDL, then they must be CST stewards. To us there is little or no difference.

Tony

The EDL person who was spotted was not in the demonstration but observing from outside. It was in a public place and as you know we do not have the power to move people on. We did make it clear that we did not want EDL people in the demonstration as did the ZF.

You still have photographs on this post that wrongly identify people as members of the EDL. This puts them in danger and if you have any ethics as an anti-fascist you will remove them immediately.

Anonymous said...

The idea that there was just one lone member of the EDL present at the demonstration is laughable. If you check the EDL Jewish Division Facebook page, you'll find them boasting that a group of them was there, enthusiastically waving Israeli flags.

Answering a non-EDL participant who questioned the EDL's role at the demo, an EDL member writes:

At the end of the demo we were personally thanked by the hassidic jews for being there.

One jew on the demo (who should have known how the media misrepresent things) asked the stewards to kick some of the EDL off the demo, for no reason other than his sheer gullibility in believing the media lies about us. It was other jewish members of the EDL who explained to the stewards why the EDL were there. None of us were kicked off the demo.

If you remember there was one huge Israeli flag that was flying much higher than any of the others. That was one of our flags. Many people wanted to take turns flying that flag. I take my hat off to the passion of the jewish people on that demo last night. But when it comes to getting things noticed, we know how to do that. We chose not fly the St. George's cross. We did not want anyone saying we were trying to use your demonstration to promote our movement. We were there to support you.

After the man from a christian organization spoke to say he was there to support you, some of our group went up and asked to do the same. We were told by the organizers that they would make an announcement about it, but it appears they forgot to do so.

Tony Greenstein said...

Yes I think that last comments clears up any confusion about the presence of the EDL on the Zionist demonstration.

bob said...

Tony, I posted about this at the end of last week, and the comment thread might interest you. See here.

Tony Greenstein said...

Bob, your link leads right back to this story rather than the one you posted!

bob said...

Oops. Here: here.

Anonymous said...

There was only ONE EDL member inside the ZF demo, and that was their PR guy, international American student, Matthew Kaplan. I have a photograph which proves this.

Anonymous said...

The Hoff and Roberta Moore, head of the 'unrestrained kahanist Defence League' (sorry, I mean EDL), today, outside Ahava
http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/100814-EDL-Ahava/G00001_UnyZfcLWI/I0000Exn0gC1EnGc

Anonymous said...

We were wrong about there only being one EDL member in the ZF pro-IDF flotilla fiasco.

Moore and her sidekick Shoshanna/Cassandra Victoria were also within the ZF demo, but she was not yet visible and still part of their veiled division at the time.

How does the Hoff feel about standing with a woman who is working with BNP, EDL and ENA to ban Shechita and Beth Din in UK?
http://twitpic.com/2ery6y

Anonymous said...

I cannot see any EDL people in the photos you have posted.
If this is how you act, then one could call anyone an EDL member and we can call anyone fascists, nazis, etc. That's not the way it works.
For accusations you should have proof, and in any case, proving someone is from the EDL does not automatically prove that he/she is a nazi, a fascist or whatever else you wish to label them. So it does constitute a case of defamation.

Being in the EDL is not a crime. But accusing people of being nazis and fascists will get you in trouble if you cannot prove your words.