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Monday, 25 October 2010

Setting the EDL Cat Among the Zionist Pigeons

It Gets Worse - Now The Zionist Federation Stands Alongside A Swastika Poster!

Well first their excuse was that the EDL wouldn’t leave them alone. They wanted nothing to do with them. Now they demonstrate with the EDL even when the latter show their true anti-semitic and homophobic views in a Swastika poster.

On Saturday the Zionist Federation and the English Defence League once again demonstrated together in support of Ahava, the Israeli shop that sells stolen West Bank ‘beauty products’. Naturally Jonathan Hoffman, Co-Chair of the Zionist Federation was there to lead the Zionist contingent. My assumption that he had been told to desist by his compatriots at the Zionist Federation was clearly wrong. Only the death of his mother had prevented him from attending all the counter-demonstrations.

Last week the Jewish Chronicle held one of its micro polls (micro because they usually never attract more than about 100 voters out of an alleged 30,000 sale). The question was the somewhat strange, if not fatuous, ‘Should Rabbis work with the EDL’. The poll was subsequently pulled when Terry Gallogly of York PSC and the Boycott Israel Network and myself advocated a ‘yes’ vote.

People might like to vote in this poll in the JC, if only to embarrass Hoffie and the Zionist Federation. Can someone please post this to JBIG please?'

To those Zionists who are now protesting about an attempt to ‘rig’ the poll one has to ask two questions.

Firstly why ask the question? Contrary to what the Jewish Chronicle’s Jessica Elgot writes, citing with approval a blogger on the virulently anti-Islam site Harry’s Place ‘Tony Greenstein is suggesting that anti-Zionists should try to rig a JC poll, so that they can falsely paint Jews as racists’

In fact the reason I advocated people voting yes was not because of any desire to paint anyone as racist who isn’t but because Rabbis, of all people, are indeed the most racist and atavistic section of the Jewish community. I have yet to publish a story about one particular British Rabbi from the Lubavitch sect and their attitude to killing non-Jews but there are plenty of articles on this blog covering this theme, not least the most recent on the sayings of ex-Chief Rabbi Ovadia Yosef on how non-Jews only exist to serve Jews to nothing of their views that killing non-Jews is not to be considered as heinous as killing a Jew. In fact it can be a duty.

I am unaware of any orthodox Jewish rabbis, outside the small anti-Zionist Neturei Karta sect or Liberal/Reform rabbis, to some extent, who have opposed even the most barbaric practices of the Israeli military. Perhaps I’m wrong and someone can point to an Orthodox Rabbi in Britain who has publicly condemned the Siege of Gaza for example?

And secondly how can encouraging people to vote, in a public poll, be considered ‘rigging’? As Terry wrote, on the 14th October.

In fact this has started to become a political crisis for the Zionist movement in this country because, however they try to paint it, their stalwarts led by the Co-Chair of the Zionist Federation, Jonathan Hoffman, are standing shoulder to shoulder with members of the English Defence League. People who not so long ago would have been amongst the pogromists.
In a post on the JC Blog ‘The EDL and Ahava’ ask quite pointed questions of the Zionist Federation and its demonstrating alongside the EDL.

There is one telegramsam (TS), who is apparently an employee of the United Jewish Appeal, whom Hoffman has been trying to identify so that he can be sacked. ‘If the ZF has allegedly made it clear the EDL/BNP aren't wanted at their demos, why hasn't Jonathan Hoffman publicly dissociated himself from them? Why hasn't he made it clear that he has asked the police for separate pens?’

And Jon points out that ‘To back up Sam's point when one searches the ZF website for EDL that there are no results found.'

As one Philocetes points out ‘Jono brought this upon himself by his words, deeds and actions.’
TS notes, concerning Hoffman’s enforced silence that ‘it does indicate that there is some discomfort at the ZF over the EDL/BNP participation in the Ahava demos. This is good, since there appears to be some realisation that this is distracting from the ZF's fantastic work on behalf of Israel advocacy. Many people now await the full dissociation.’ TS asks why ‘If the ZF has allegedly made it clear the EDL/BNP aren't wanted at their demos, why hasn't Jonathan Hoffman publicly dissociated himself from them? Why hasn't he made it clear that he has asked the police for separate pens? Why doesn't he demonstrate on alternate weekends so as not to be seen to be associating with the EDL/BNP?’

On another blog which also covers much the same ground ‘anti-Zionists urge rabbis to work with EDL’ there is an extremely interesting comment from one ‘zair’. Responding to the comment that 'Many people now await the full dissociation.' He writes ‘Don't hold your breath ts. As I have previously stated on this website, at a recent ZF event there was open discussion of dealings with the sikh representative of the EDL.’ If this is true, then it would appear that there are those within the ZF who are in favour of at least tacit co-operation with the EDL or what they would like to think of as the ‘non-racist’ or non-anti-semitic wing. Interestingly there were no responses to this before the whole discussion was terminated.

Hoffman is, of course, extremely irritated by these comments, especially on a Jewish Chronicle site and makes it clear that if it were up to him, anti-Zionists, which means everyone to the left of Lieberman, would be banned. Eventually he says that "I told SB that there was some crossover between the BNP and the EDL and that the EDL sometimes intimidated Muslims and that both these are reprehensible."

Hardly one might think a full-throated condemnation. Apparently some of their actions are reprehensible, and presumably others (like turning up with swastika posters at EDL) are not. And adding the ritual abuse for which he is justly famous he asks ‘Which of these words do you not understand, cowardly anonymous a*sehole?'

Unsurprisingly TS points out that ‘you do not dissociate yourself, Jonathan. Again you resort to being defensive and abusive. It's simple: a plain, clear statement that you and the ZF dissociate yourselves totally from the EDL/BNP. What's so hard about that? Yes the EDL/BNP indulge in reprehensible acts, but you don't dissociate from the EDL/BNP. And are we to believe what's written in the Guardian now?’

At which point one Jon joints in. ‘Jonathan I think what people (myself included) want is a simple statement either from yourself in a personal capacity or from the ZF in an professional one stating that you do not share the aims of the EDL, you renounce them and, most importantly that neither you nor the Zionist Federation will stand/march with them in any capacity? Does that seem fair?’

Well obviously not, because at one point yankeeuxb notes that ‘Someone wrote a while back that J Hoffman is probably a plant. So rabid, right wing, insulting, pompous and pathetic is he that he is probably a Jihadi plant designed to alienate all reasonable discourse and feed the impression that Zionists are hell bent on the delegitimization of Palestinians as well as their occupation and violent deaths. His right wing fundamentalist hate can't be real can it?’

I couldn’t of course possibly comment but it has occurred to me that JH is probably our equivalent of Kim Philby and the Mata Hari! But of course his detractors are being unfair and clearly don’t understand his predicament. Hoffman has to repeat himself since he needs the EDL despite all the fact that they don’t understand what an embarassment they are. "I told SB that there was some crossover between the BNP and the EDL and that the EDL sometimes intimidated Muslims and that both these are reprehensible." Do you not understand English?‘

TS, who strikes one as a member of that vanishing breed, the left-Zionist, protests that ‘they are standing with, mingling and all the rest. There's sufficient photographic evidence of that. The problem is that Jonathan has become the story, thereby detracting and distracting from support for Israel, which is the main purpose of the ZF. Jonathan should either unequivocally dissociate from the EDL/BNP or the ZF should do it for him.’

At which point the Zionist Federation intervenes. Jonathan Hoffman has had a vow of silence imposed upon him! All comments are met with the identikit response that:
‘As regards enquiries about the ZF, I am advised that I cannot respond anymore to queries which are posted anonymously on the Internet. However, please do not hesitate to write to the staff at the Zionist Federation with your concerns. (You will of course need to give your real name and supply a postal address).’
Below is a report of Saturday’s demonstration:

Saturday, 23 October 2010
Video courtesy of SA.
By Bruce, Americans AGAINST Apartheid UK.

There was much activity taking place in London today with the large Trade Union anti-cuts march & rally, as well as the popular Anarchist Book Fair being held.

However on Monmouth Street, Palestine solidarity activists and campaigners came to take part in a public education campaign, demonstrate and express their outrage over the activities of an illegal company that is manufacturing and selling stolen goods from stolen land; products of the world’s last Apartheid state.

About thirty Ahava boycott campaigners and fewer than ten Zionists were present throughout the two-hour demo. Despite the differences in numbers, many boycott activists were on the receiving end of the Zionist Federation’s Co-Vice Chair Jonathan Hoffman’s tongue. The Hoff’s verbal abuse of Ahava boycott campaigners was so vile, that police once again were forced to have words with him about his behaviour.

Five members of the Jewish Division of the EDL turned up, including Kahanist Roberta Moore. The EDL flew a variety of flags including the GLBT rainbow flag (an insult to the GLBT community), the EDL Jewish Division flag (an insult to the Jewish community), the EDL Flag (an insult to the English people) and a bizarre large St George’s Cross flag with the Union Jack, as well as images of the flags of Israel and Portugal (an insult to the Portuguese) in each of its quadrants. When the first EDL counter-protester turned up and the photographers started taking photos, Mr Hoffman took refuge in the pen reserved for the Ahava boycott campaigners which was surrounded by Palestinian flags.

Zionist ”leader” Hoffman and diminutive propagandist Millett adopted very aggressive tactics; approaching and interrupting Ahava boycott campaigners who were talking to members of the public and thrusting Zionist flyers into their hands. This approach often backfired, as the public’s reaction to the Zionist’s intrusion was negative and hostile. This demonstrator was talking to an American woman when Mr Hoffman came running up and shouted “Don’t believe him, he’s lying, read this!” and attempted to thrust a leaflet into her hand. The woman angrily told Mr Hoffman to “get lost”. A sentiment shared by many on the day.

A placard decorated with swastikas was displayed within the Zionist/EDL pen that read: “Codepink stinks, self-hating Joos+ Gays”. Many of the Zionists didn’t appear to have any objection to this placard. In a rare display of responsibility, the police instructed that the placard be removed from public view. Another placard that read “Hamas Hate Homos” attracted police attention as well and also soon disappeared from view.

After the demo, many campaigners went on to South Kensington to help stage the “Alternative Veolia Exhibition” outside the Natural History Museum click here for video.

Please note: None of these images have been digitally altered.

NEXT DEMO: Saturday, 6 November, 12:00 noon.
BRING/WEAR SPA ATTIRE: BATHROBES, TOWELS, MUD MASKS video

9 comments:

joe90 kane said...

(Sorry for being a bore - but just to continue on the topic of the Jewish Chronicle opinion poll on the edl re-using comments I made on JPUK.)

The JC poll was repugnant beyond belief. To even suggest nazis and neo-nazis have some kind of politically validity is repulsive. If anyone needs to ask questions like these then they are already lost.

Tony Greenstein treated the JC poll with the respect and dignity it deserved - none. Less than none in fact.

I'm utterly amazed it can even be a question - should we collaborate with edl nazis and neo-nazis or not?

The JC blogger Mr Posner even stands up for the rights of nazis to be able to freely express their views in public.

Obviously Mr Posner isn't familiar with the outcome of the last time nazis were allowed to take part in democracy, in Weimar Germany.

Maybe Mr Posner will also stand up for the rights of neo-nazis to deny The Holocaust.

I thought it was Palestinians who were the natural allies of nazis and other such antisemitic tendencies as well. It is a charge zionists themselves often make against Palestinians and their supporters.

Indeed, if Palestinians and their friends stood up for the rights of neo-nazi and other holocaust deniers to be heard in public there would be a firestorm of zionist propaganda against them. And quite rightly.


TGB, thanks for giving me the opportunity to air some of my views.

Take care.

Mike Cushman said...

The line in this post "The poll was subsequently pulled when Terry Gallogly of York PSC and the Boycott Israel Network and myself advocated a ‘yes’ vote." is potentially seriously misleading It could be read two ways:

The poll was subsequently pulled when [Terry Gallogly of York PSC] AND [the Boycott Israel Network] AND [myself] advocated a ‘yes’ vote.

OR

The poll was subsequently pulled when [Terry Gallogly of York PSC and the Boycott Israel Network] AND [myself] advocated a ‘yes’ vote.

If the former it is straightforward wrong as BIN has discussed never this.

If the second then it is misleading in bringing BIN unnecessarily into this discussion nd opening up the ambiguity.

Ian said...

What the writer of the Free Palestine Fortnightly Demo neglects ( and My comment was removed from Their website ) to mention is that Jonathan Hoffman & the rest of the Counter-Demo immediately requested that the Police set up another pen for the EDL .

The EDL complained about this & on a number of occasions walked into Our pen area - it was during these moments that the Anti-AHAVA Demonstrators took photos & film trying to smear us with association with the EDL .

The Counter-Demonstration regards the EDL as unwanted & univited Gatecrashers & We are opposed to all manifestations of Racism , Anti-Semitism , Islamophobia ; and Homophobia . We do not want to be associated with the EDL & We do not want to demonstrate with Them .

I spoke to one of the Demonstrations leaders & asked Him why They were printing allegations that They know are untrue & libellous - He walked off saying
" I dont speak to Zionists " .

I notice that Your website reprints the photo of the EDL placard with My name next to it .
Although the photo clearly shows Me looking away from the placard & not having anything to do with it the writing under the photo has been added to imply that I am Homophobic & connected to the EDL .

I am not Homophobic & I regard this type of smear tactic deeply unfair & offensive .

May I remind You that printing this photo on Your website is Libellous .

Tony Greenstein said...

Mike Cushman is right that BIN network has never discussed the question of its approach, if any, to the JC-EDL poll. The report is simply what it says. Terry Gallogly of York PSC AND Bin, which is where he posted the original post on this.

Ian is not right however. He rights that 'We are opposed to all manifestations of Racism , Anti-Semitism , Islamophobia ; and Homophobia . We do not want to be associated with the EDL & We do not want to demonstrate with Them.' Homophobia is rife within the Zionist movement and Jewish Gays play no part in communal activities. Do they have representation on the Board of Deputies? You know Chief Rabbi Sacks views on gays.

But more importantly Ian and others who say they don't want anything to do with the EDL have a simple choice. Either stay and demonstrate alongside them or go home. Which is more preferable? Supporting the right of Ahava to sell stolen products from the West Bank, and being seen alongside EDL, or refusing to demonstrate alongside the EDL.

I know what our position has always been. No fascists or racists. Period.

And I don't accept for one minute the guff about being opposed to racism and homophobia.

Settlement in the West Bank is carried out by the most racist section of Israeli society. It has a Yesha council with people like Rabbi Dov Lior on it who openly states that non-Jewish life is unimportant compared to Jewish life.

The attacks on local Palestinians by settlers are horrific by any account. The recent burning of 2,000 olive groves. The burning of mosques. The armed attacks on Palestinians who tend their fields, backed up by the Israeli military. The use of child labour in the Jordan valley and of course the 'god given right to the area' which is reminiscent of the claims of a thousand year Reich.

You accept Ian all of this and it is only 'anti-semitism' which concerns you. The fact that 59% of Israeli high school children oppose Arabs having the vote or having equal rights. The portrayal of Arabs in school books as the 'baddies'. The refusal to accept Arab children in kintergardens, as documented on this sight. It's all there but you demonstrate in favour of those who wish to expel Arabs.

Because Ahava operates in the West Bank, not that I consider it any different from Israeli businesses operating behind the non-existent green line.

I don't therefore accept that the wording to the image is in any way libellous but I'm happy to carry your explanation.



He says that '

he EDL complained about this & on a number of occasions walked into Our pen area - it was during these moments that the Anti-AHAVA Demonstrators took photos & film trying to smear us with association with the EDL .

The Counter-Demonstration regards the EDL as unwanted & univited Gatecrashers & I spoke to one of the Demonstrations leaders & asked Him why They were printing allegations that They know are untrue & libellous - He walked off saying
" I dont speak to Zionists " .

I notice that Your website reprints the photo of the EDL placard with My name next to it .
Although the photo clearly shows Me looking away from the placard & not having anything to do with it the writing under the photo has been added to imply that I am Homophobic & connected to the EDL .

I am not Homophobic & I regard this type of smear tactic deeply unfair & offensive .

May I remind You that printing this photo on Your website is Libellous .

Tony Greenstein said...

Mike Cushman is right that BIN network has never discussed the question of its approach, if any, to the JC-EDL poll. The report is simply what it says. Terry Gallogly of York PSC AND Bin, which is where he posted the original post on this.

Ian is not right however. He rights that 'We are opposed to all manifestations of Racism , Anti-Semitism , Islamophobia ; and Homophobia . We do not want to be associated with the EDL & We do not want to demonstrate with Them.' Homophobia is rife within the Zionist movement and Jewish Gays play no part in communal activities. Do they have representation on the Board of Deputies? You know Chief Rabbi Sacks views on gays.

But more importantly Ian and others who say they don't want anything to do with the EDL have a simple choice. Either stay and demonstrate alongside them or go home. Which is more preferable? Supporting the right of Ahava to sell stolen products from the West Bank, and being seen alongside EDL, or refusing to demonstrate alongside the EDL.

I know what our position has always been. No fascists or racists. Period.

And I don't accept for one minute the guff about being opposed to racism and homophobia.

Settlement in the West Bank is carried out by the most racist section of Israeli society. It has a Yesha council with people like Rabbi Dov Lior on it who openly states that non-Jewish life is unimportant compared to Jewish life.

The attacks on local Palestinians by settlers are horrific by any account. The recent burning of 2,000 olive groves. The burning of mosques. The armed attacks on Palestinians who tend their fields, backed up by the Israeli military. The use of child labour in the Jordan valley and of course the 'god given right to the area' which is reminiscent of the claims of a thousand year Reich.

You accept Ian all of this and it is only 'anti-semitism' which concerns you. The fact that 59% of Israeli high school children oppose Arabs having the vote or having equal rights. The portrayal of Arabs in school books as the 'baddies'. The refusal to accept Arab children in kintergardens, as documented on this sight. It's all there but you demonstrate in favour of those who wish to expel Arabs.

Because Ahava operates in the West Bank, not that I consider it any different from Israeli businesses operating behind the non-existent green line.

I don't therefore accept that the wording to the image is in any way libellous but I'm happy to carry your explanation.



He says that '

he EDL complained about this & on a number of occasions walked into Our pen area - it was during these moments that the Anti-AHAVA Demonstrators took photos & film trying to smear us with association with the EDL .

The Counter-Demonstration regards the EDL as unwanted & univited Gatecrashers & I spoke to one of the Demonstrations leaders & asked Him why They were printing allegations that They know are untrue & libellous - He walked off saying
" I dont speak to Zionists " .

I notice that Your website reprints the photo of the EDL placard with My name next to it .
Although the photo clearly shows Me looking away from the placard & not having anything to do with it the writing under the photo has been added to imply that I am Homophobic & connected to the EDL .

I am not Homophobic & I regard this type of smear tactic deeply unfair & offensive .

May I remind You that printing this photo on Your website is Libellous .

Tony Greenstein said...

Mike Cushman is right that BIN network has never discussed the question of its approach, if any, to the JC-EDL poll. The report is simply what it says. Terry Gallogly of York PSC AND Bin, which is where he posted the original post on this.

Ian is not right however. He rights that 'We are opposed to all manifestations of Racism , Anti-Semitism , Islamophobia ; and Homophobia . We do not want to be associated with the EDL & We do not want to demonstrate with Them.' Homophobia is rife within the Zionist movement and Jewish Gays play no part in communal activities. Do they have representation on the Board of Deputies? You know Chief Rabbi Sacks views on gays.

But more importantly Ian and others who say they don't want anything to do with the EDL have a simple choice. Either stay and demonstrate alongside them or go home. Which is more preferable? Supporting the right of Ahava to sell stolen products from the West Bank, and being seen alongside EDL, or refusing to demonstrate alongside the EDL.

I know what our position has always been. No fascists or racists. Period.

And I don't accept for one minute the guff about being opposed to racism and homophobia.

Settlement in the West Bank is carried out by the most racist section of Israeli society. It has a Yesha council with people like Rabbi Dov Lior on it who openly states that non-Jewish life is unimportant compared to Jewish life.

The attacks on local Palestinians by settlers are horrific by any account. The recent burning of 2,000 olive groves. The burning of mosques. The armed attacks on Palestinians who tend their fields, backed up by the Israeli military. The use of child labour in the Jordan valley and of course the 'god given right to the area' which is reminiscent of the claims of a thousand year Reich.

You accept Ian all of this and it is only 'anti-semitism' which concerns you. The fact that 59% of Israeli high school children oppose Arabs having the vote or having equal rights. The portrayal of Arabs in school books as the 'baddies'. The refusal to accept Arab children in kintergardens, as documented on this sight. It's all there but you demonstrate in favour of those who wish to expel Arabs.

Because Ahava operates in the West Bank, not that I consider it any different from Israeli businesses operating behind the non-existent green line.

I don't therefore accept that the wording to the image is in any way libellous but I'm happy to carry your explanation.

Ian said...

Tony ,

There is no Homophobia tolerated in the Zionist Movement . I have many Gay friends Who are leading activists in Pro Israel campaigning - I won't use Their names without Their permission .

Israel Connect ( the Youth wing of The Zionist Federation ) brought over Mr Gay Israel to speak to young Jews ( We were criticised for this by the Orthodox Right but We held the meeting regardless of Their prejudices )

I am not Orthodox so I can't comment on Their beliefs
but I know that The Reform & Liberal Movements have Gay & Lesbian Rabbis
& LGBT People are treated the same as any other members of the Community . Israel has a thriving LGBT Community & I hope that it continues to go from strength to strength .

I am sick & tired of having to repeat over & over again that the Zionist Counter-Demonstration does not Demonstrate alongside the EDL !!!
We have left the pen area to continue Demonstrating next to the hotel or We have requested that the EDL be given Their Own area . ( Monmouth Street is such a small Street that it is not really possible for large areas to be given as pens which would enable clear Political seperation of the Groups )

If the Anti-AHAVA Extremists would stop their intimidating Demonstration then the EDL would obviously not be there & would not be given a reason to display their politics in the Street .

I am not a Supporter of the Extremist Settlers . I Supported Disengagement from Gaza & I advocate robust IDF , Israeli Police & Shin Bet operations against Right-Wing Subversives Who challenge the rule of law within Israel's Democracy . I Support a 2 State Solution which will bring Peace for both The Israeli & Palestinian Peoples - I Support The Israeli Left-Wing Poltical Parties like Labor & Meretz & I am involved in Israeli & Palestinian Trade Union cooperation .

Your allegation that I Demonstrate in favor of those who wish to expell Arabs is as unfair & false as it it is again Libellous .

We there to Demonstrate against an Extremist & intimidating campaign that aims to Deligitimize Israeli Society by Boycotting a Kibbutz that is situated just outside the 1967 Borders ( I doubt that there was ever a settled Palestinian Community in the area ) . AHAVA products are made by a Kibbutz that predominently votes for
Left-wing Parties that support the Peace Process . The Boycott Campaign can only bring unemployment to both Israeli & Palestinian Workers alike - it will only lead to further distrust between Jews & Arabs & is likely to aid Right-Wing Reactionary forces in Israeli Society - We should be encouraging Dialogue between Jews & Arabs ( especially in the Trade Unions & inside the workplace ) . These reasons are why I Demonstrate in Solidarity with AHAVA .

RichardHutton said...

You missed a point Tony: the Harry's Place site doctored the e-mail you'd sent, and tried to paint you as an actual advocate of support for the EDL.

If you read down at the bottom of the thread somebody - whose name may be similar to my own - demonstrated the point:

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/10/15/tony-greenstein-wants-rabbis-to-support-the-edl/

I don't share all of your opinions; but for people to be misrepresenting what you've said in order to attack you on a personal level is ridiculous; and to then be painting you as problematic while defending our mutual friend Mr Hoffman is appallingly cynical. My support may not be worth much, but you have it wholeheartedly. And you have my best wishes as ever.

Rich

Tony Greenstein said...

thanks Richard. I stand corrected. I did pick up on similar misrepresentation on Green Engage where I have apparently urged rabbis to support the EDL! But this kind of obfuscation is typical of those who themselves who scream bittery, like Ian and Hoffman, if we suggested that demonstrating alongside the EDL implies any level of cooperation.

As for Ian.

Of course homophobia is tolerated within the Zionist movement. I've been on the receiving end of both homophobic comments and virulently anti-semitic comments such as when you were circumcised they threw away the wrong bit (Herut) or just a plan and straighforward pity you and you family didn't perish in Auschwitz.

The Liberal and Reform groups have always been at the fringes of Zionism due to the fact that the definition of being a Jew in the Law of Return would exclude many (most?) of them.

I'm sorry to hear that Ian is sick and tired of the calumny that Zionists and the EDl demonstrate alongside each other. Presumably our own eyes and photographs are merely lying, we imagining Hoffman and co. standing alongside them. It's a mirage.

I can tell you one thing Ian. I have NEVER demonstrated alongside fascists nor will I ever do. When we had problems in the early 80s we physically removed them even though at least one of us (Roland Rance) was arrested. But good bourgeois types don't do this type of thing.

So you want a separate pen from them and in the mean time you just stand at a safe distance alongside them and their swastika posters. Really you couldn't make it up. And why? Because you want to defend a shop selling settlement goods that promotes continuing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians who experience the murderous racism and ethnic cleansing of the settlers and army.

Well yes of course if we gave up demonstrating then EDL wouldn't be there! That's what's called giving into fascism. Clearly Searchlight has moved even further to the Right since Gable was editor. But even he wouldn't have argued fascists should dictate what demonstrations we hold.

Yes of course you are not an extremist. You supported 'disengagement from Gaza but so did Ariel Sharon, or was he not an extremist. You support 'robust' IDF etc. actions against the settlers but you fail to explain why it is that when thousands of olive groves have been set alight by settlers that only protesting Palestinians are arrested or chidren are arrested and beaten up (as long as they are not Jewish).

The Israeli state supports the settlers. 16% of the army officers in the West Bank are settlers. The Israeli army has always supported settler violence, except where it spills over into attacks on liberal Israelis such as Zeev Sternhell last year.

I don't support 2 states. Its a recipe for apartheid and a mini bantustand. I support the South Africa solution - one secular democratic state.

You say you support the Zionist left - Labour and Meretz. The latter has almost disappeared and the former is on the way - tipped for just 6 seats in the next elections. And a left party? Barak is the one who presided over the Mavi Marmara murders. He it is who sits in the cabinet with Lieberman and supports loyalty oaths. If this is 'left' I hate to see what 'right' Zionism is like.

There is nothing 'extremist' about the Ahava demonstrations. They are there to support the Palestinians. And of course we oppose the Israeli state as a Jewish state i.e. deligitimisation if that is what you want to call it. We support Israel/Palestine as a state of its citizens not a state of the Jewish 'people' i.e. Israeli Jews and Jews outside Israel.

Is that so hard to understand? Is that your reason for demonstrating alongside the EDL?