Gilad Ratzmon and Paul Eisen Abandon Ship
hat tip to Mark Elf  |
| The Death Throes of DeLiberation - the anti-Semitic Pro-Palestine site |
All the old Atzmonites were there – Eisen, Roy Bard (Free the Peeps), Laura Stuart, FCL and of course our old friend Gilad Atzmon himself.
Alas the site has lasted little more than 6 months before degenerating into a most appalling sectarian bickering and name calling. It seems that the anti-Semites can’t agree among themselves.
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| Khalid Amaryeh |
‘Deliberation has effectively become a mouthpiece for fanatical Shiite radicals embracing tyrannical regimes in Damascus and Tehran.’Khalid Amayreh, although not a contributor as I erroneously said, is a regular contributor to deLiberation and as his comments below his article Those living by the sword shall die by the sword
Deliberation Should not have reached this point. This is the views of the founders of the site.
make clear he is a vile racist and mysoginist. An example of this is the following comment which I publish holding my nose:
(Alex) at least I know my father, and his father, and all my ancestors for the past 500 years.
Unlike me, most Shiites don’t know their fathers, because their mothers slept with hundreds of men in order to desreve the good company of Zaynab and Zahra in the hereafter.
In Baghdada, and Also in Iran, Obstetric & Gynecology Wards summon tens of men for DNA tests to know who is the boy’s mother.
In Mashhad, Iran, an Iranian girle sells herself for five dollars an hour. If she sleeps with 20 men, she makes a hundred dollars.
In Yemen, they send trucks packed with shiite girls to the mountains so that the houthi fighters could get rid of their dirty waters. And the next night, they are sent to another group of fighters, and so on annd so fourth. And so and so frth.
In Baghdad, most of the Shiite temples, the Husseinya, have been transformed into prostitution houses where a given girl has multiple husbands in less than 24 hours. And if they get pregnant, the child is named Abdul Hussein, Abdul Mahdi, etc.
And accorsig to the Shiite of Iblis, such whores will be the first to go to heaven on the day of judgment. Even Ayatullah Sistani, the highest ranking clergyman in Iraq, doesn’t know his father because his mother slept with so many men.
I am sorry to put you head down an d to diagrace you, but sometimes one has to say what one has to say. Remember you house is of glass and I am preparing for you a lot of surprises exposing your promiscuous cult.
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| Well might our Laura ask! |
How has a site that was set up specifically to combat the Jewish anti-Zionist Zionists like myself and Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods come to this pass? Really it is quite simple. In the words of Dean Acheson, US Secretary of State under Eisenhower, noted that ‘‘Great Britain has lost an Empire and has not yet found a role.’’They all agreed on the wickedness of the Jewish anti-Zionists and their compatriots and supporters, as well as secular Palestinian comrades like Ali Abunimah and the Angry Arab blogger. What they couldn’t do was define a role for themselves because they had foresworn any analysis that could bind them together.
For Atzmon himself anti-Zionist is itself a form of Zionism! For Paul Eisen, attacking the factual basis of the holocaust was a precondition for any opposition to Israel. For Laura Stuart, who triggered the crisis, when she sent the editor/moderator Jonathan Blakeney an e-mail which he published, everything begins from the most medieval interpretation of Islam. I’ve only met her once but someone who dresses from head to toe in a burka/niqab is hardly going to be in favour of liberating anyone when she can’t begin the process herself.
And just to make it clear, I’m not at all opposed to the Islamic religion anymore than I’m opposed to Judaism or Christianity. But I will oppose and critique all religious practices. Jewish women in Mea Sharim in Jerusalem also cover themselves with a veil, it is not unique to Islam, and this practice owes more to tribalism and men’s oppression of women than Islam anyway.
To the end Paul Eisen found the Jewish hand in all the setbacks, much like Hitler blamed the last world war on Jewish aggrandisement and machinations rather than his invasion of Poland and Czechoslovakia:
Jonathon Blakeney, the semi-sensible editor of this lunatic sight reported the sad (?) news that
‘I have been told that Gilad Atzmon and Paul Eisen are leaving deLiberation.'
Of course this is not the first time that Atzmon's site has collapsed. There was the Palestine Thinktank setup up with Mary Rizzo, after the Peace Palestine site collapsed. On that occasion Mary, who has been almost totally silent, accused Atzmon of consorting with Israeli informers as well as being an out and out mysogynist.
Apparently my un-ethical and illegal use of emails is partly to blame. LOL :-) Although stricly speaking it is not illegal.
To which the appropriately named ‘fool me once’ (surely more than once?) repeated his masters voice saying that ‘A lot of people will find that very disappointing.’
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| Paul Eisen - Holocaust Denier Eminent Grise |
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| Even Ariadna ticks off Eisen for his anti-Semitism |
Eisen informed people that
‘I’m no longer an Editor because I cannot fit in with the current editorial style and practices.'
Apparently it was not Goebbels enough for him. But in any case:
BTW, I’ve only been an Editor for a total of about 4 weeks. I was an Editor for about 2 weeks at the beginning, and then I was removed. Then, about 2 weeks ago, they asked me to lend a hand with all the workload.’
The site editor, Jonathan Blakeney presumably then wrote that
‘Despite Eisen and Gilad jumping ship just as we getting really popular, we are not going to let that stop the deLiberation website.’
Popular? Hardly. Influential? Not at all.
But he says that ‘if nothing else we can all agree that we learnt a lot in the process.’
That is the problem. Nothing has been learnt.
The immediate trigger is the revolution in Syria which I’ve commented about yesterday. In may view the West has successfully subverted the process. It is no longer a popular revolution against the Assad regime.
Yet the contributors to DeLiberation, having based their analysis on Palestine on being Jewish or not Jewish could not then have any grasp of what is happening in Syria. How is it that a regime that is supported by Sunnis is also supported by the Shi’ite Tehran regime and Nasrallah, the Shi’ite leader of Lebanon’s Druze. Surely the Jews don’t control them too?
The answer of course is simple. Hezbollah relied on the Syrian regime to pass on the weaponry that Iran supplied, which in turn deterred Israel. It was based not on religion but realpolitik. Just as Pope Alexander XIII supported the Protestants against the Catholics at the Battle of the Boyne in Ireland in July 1690 so the leaders of the main currents within Islam take their positions based on today’s politics, not the Quoran.
If they had had their wits about them then the DeLiberationists would have noticed how the USA was able to successfully create sectarian divisions with murderous consequences in Iraq. And how Al Quaeda, an American creation, played the role of fascist murderers in this process, deliberately targeting the Shi’ite of Baghdad in particular.
Politics, class politics, seeing reality as it is, analysing the actions of regimes in terms of interests – political and class – is the only way of understanding what is happening in Syria today. Instead DeLiberation got sucked into the quagmire of sectarian divisions between Sunni, Alawite, Shi’ite and all the rest.
I don’t mourn the imminent death of this site but I do mourn those who will continue to follow sectarian paths rather than seeing that Zionism was a political creation. It used being Jewish as its mask, its badge but underneath what matters are the economic and political interests of the West and US imperialism.
This is the lesson from DeLiberation. Forget the reverse racism, the ethnic divisions, concentrate on who pays who what. Follow the money and oil. As for Syria, the catalyst in this debacle, we face a western sponsored armed insurrection that will be no better than Assad. The popular revolution has been militarised and now those who opposed Assad in the streets, women who don’t want to wear the niqab/burka are opposed to what is happening.
Tony Greenstein
Khalid Amaryeh was never an editor of deLiberation.
ReplyDeleteTony, according to Hanoch Levine, Israel's brightest dramatist, Schadenfreude is the only real Freude. But apart from that, who cares?
ReplyDeleteBesides, the moral you draw from this story is specious. I wish it had something to do with serious politics or the lack of it. But the fact is, the left is breaking down over Syria just as the neo-Nazis are. The moral of the story is that, if you take politics to be divided between the lights outside the cave and the shadows cast on the cave's wall, surprisingly enough, when the lights move, the shadows move as well. (that is why it is so easy to mistake the shadows for reality).
Evildoer,
ReplyDeleteYou are right that there are serious divisions amongst the left re Syria. Partly because of the lack of information as to who and what the opposition consists of, although clarity is beginning to emerge.
But what is also clear is that this god awful site is following an imperialist agenda and actually revelling in the sectarian divisions and indeed using them as an explanation.
And I don't take politics to be divided between the light outside a cave and the shadows it casts. Politics is more serious though clearly people mistake form for substance!
The left and the Neo-Nazis are the same, both are looking for "who is to blame who is guilty" but..... non of them gives a damn that the dictator (suddenly he never has been) slaughters thousands of his people, and what they care is politics.
ReplyDeleteYou are making humanity sick.
No wander the left and the Neo Nazis are treated the same.
The Left has always opposed the Assad regime, which has never been a leftist one, from the moment it intervened in the Lebanese civil war on the side of the Phalange in 1977. Indeed the origins of the Assad dictators go back to Black September 1970 when there was a possibility of Syrian support for the Palestinian fighters being attacked in Jordan.
ReplyDeleteHowever we are also not going to support another, possibly worse, dictatorship, just because it has an Islamic tinge to it and which openly wants to wage war on Christians, Alawites and Shi'ites. This confessionalisation of the revolution is deadly and the question Akram, which you cannot or will not address, is whether you agree with the West's militarisation of the struggle in order to contain it to the same or similar elements that have always ruled with brute force.
Your comparisons between the left and neo-Nazis make no sense, are ahistorical and you provide no examples
Tony, I don't want to get involved in mudslinging, but I do query the allegation that Atzmon was involved with an Israeli informer -- I think that was second hand speculation passed around by Mary Rizzo, and has not been proved,and therefore, amounts to little more than 'I heard that he said and then she said'type of back chat, which I think is beneath you. There really is no reliable evidence for it, besides a few internet board smears.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Joe.
"However we are also not going to support another, possibly worse, dictatorship, just because it has an Islamic tinge to it and which openly wants to wage war on Christians, Alawites and Shi'ites"......
ReplyDeleteWhat is the left better then all those who asked stupid political questions durin WWII and kept silence when millions were murdered,
You just sit on your ass and say..... I want support bla bla bla.... and who cares that meanwhile thousands are murdered and raped....who cares.... but you just wait to see the political next regime..... will it be good for me.... well so 50 thousand were killed.... so what.
Wow what a great humanist you are.... you see you are useless.
Joe
ReplyDeleteI have no way of knowing who this person is, but Mary Rizzo, given her close involvement with Atzmon, may be correct.
In an e-mail to me Atzmon said that this was the main reason for the split, so I don't think it should be ignored, given that he has done his best to split and attack the Palestine solidarity movement in Britain and in particular BDS. At times going out of his way to praise the 'honest' Zionists vs the 'crypto' Zionists.
Whether it is true is, I agree a matter that is not proven and in the nature of such things unlikely to be proven. However I do have some suspicions that there is, in this case, no smoke without fire (though sometimes you can have smoke without fire as it were!).
I find it funny that atzmon has so painted himself into a corner he can't stand being a member of a club that would have him as a member.
ReplyDeleteyes this whole affair has the trappings of a whitehall farce. Atzmon is incapable of working with anyone and those he does work with fall out with all the sectarian spite you can imagine. Atzmon has taken the side of the most virulent bigot and anti-Semite of the lot - Laura Stuart - who is viciously anti-gay and seriously asked me whether a film produced by 'A Aryan' about the Jews, featuring Martin Luther, Houston Stewart Chamberlain and other lovelies was anti-Semitic!
ReplyDeleteBrighton or what?
Having already falsely claimed that Khalid was an editor, you now introduce more lies.
ReplyDelete"Atzmon has taken the side of the most virulent bigot and anti-Semite of the lot - Laura Stuart"
Two people - two smears - one post. Well done. Any evidence that Atzmon has sided with Laura Stuart?
The claim that Khalid was an editor rather than a contributor was wrong and changed. Any evidence that Atzmon has sided with Laura Stuart? Yes it is clear from the dialogue that he disagreed with the decision of the editor to publish Ms Stuart's e-mail. Hence his withdrawal. He has also supported her when she made various innuendos against myself of a puerile and infantile nature. It is pretty clear whose side he has taken but there are none so blind as those who will not see.
ReplyDeletewell all over you are chosen as a natural candidate for the "self hating jew" to take the place of Eisen and Atzmon in Deliberation.......
ReplyDeleteits exacly for you...... they are for the Palestinian cause and they hate anything concerning the word Jew......
Always happy to publish an illiterate Zionist comment, of which Edwin's is a good example.
ReplyDeleteWhen will he and his ilk understand that we don't hate ourselves, we hate racist idiots like Edwin!
Like stopped clock he gets a couple of things right. Yes Eisen and Atzmon hate anything concerning the word Jew, which is why we oppose them just as we oppose Zionist racists. Quite consistent beyond Edwin's comprehension.
Oh and the term 'self hating' was first used politically by the Nazis to describe anti-fascist Germans. What comes around goes around as they say.
Deliberation has nothing to do with Zionism......
ReplyDeleteonly pure hate for the Jews.
you just don't understand, that you are the best candidate for this job instead of Atzmon and Eisen....
Ah Edwin you are a bundle of laughs. Zionism and anti-Semitism are 2 sides of the same coin. Atzmon never left or disowned Zionism he merely transferred his hate to Jews.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, if someone tells me even today that as a Jew I don't belong in Britain, are they an anti-Semite, a Zionist or both?
If you weren't so stupid and ignorant you would also know that the writings of most of the Zionist theoreticians, Herzl included, contained vitriol directed against Jews that matched anything the Streicher's and Rosenbergs came up with later.
So I suggest you post in future to deLiberation as you will find kindred souls there!
Apparently Roy Bard wasn't satisfied demolishing Indymedia, and had to go found a new site just to demolish it half a year later.
ReplyDeleteI notice there was also a thread on HP about the impending demise of the site. When you've got both HP and TG agreeing on what a preening, Jew-hating knob Bard is, and how his anti-Semitism has driven another site straight into the ground, it's a pretty good bet that Roy Bard is a preening, Jew-hating knob.
Mind you, some thin shadow of the site will probably be around for another six months, but it'll continue to sink down the ratings as it has done for the last six months.