tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post7244118534671730038..comments2024-03-19T10:34:04.842+00:00Comments on Tony Greenstein's Blog: Left Unity ConferenceTony Greensteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14300640929161205370noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-67560727539297068492013-12-05T23:04:01.247+00:002013-12-05T23:04:01.247+00:00Tony, you're right about feminists. Don't ...Tony, you're right about feminists. Don't listen to the jumped-up liberals who say otherwise. They'll never understand socialism or what equality really means.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-35170435423313367962013-12-05T21:57:33.826+00:002013-12-05T21:57:33.826+00:00I don't think I was abusive about Liz but her ...I don't think I was abusive about Liz but her politics have represented the worst of left elitism. In particular providing a cover for the SWP's destruction of the Socialist Alliance and refusing to account for her decision. <br /><br />Not to criticise her over that is to forego any form of accountability. She played a major part, with Mike M, in allowing the SWP to destroy an organisation which was larger and more firmly based than SU. It's fine that she pops up 12 years later but I don't think one should simply pass over what she did, including saying nothing pubicly about the SWP shenanigans in the office.<br /><br />My criticism over her chairing is, in my opinion, fair and I was equally critical of the afternoon Chair.<br /><br />I've also heavily criticised Alan Thornett on the same account and he went further with his endorsement and participation in Respect.<br /><br />Tony Greensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14300640929161205370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-38247715478033436982013-12-05T17:35:08.312+00:002013-12-05T17:35:08.312+00:00One other thing. I may not agree with Liz Davies ...One other thing. I may not agree with Liz Davies on some things, but I really think someone with her history in the movement deserves better than some of the abuse you've heaped on her. Stick to politics if you want to have a go! Andy Richardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01441557191138845101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-16901456173877111482013-12-05T04:22:23.318+00:002013-12-05T04:22:23.318+00:00I defer to Andy's knowledge, regarding the int...I defer to Andy's knowledge, regarding the introduction of the principle of proportionality in Unison. If so, it was a fundamental mistake which has done nothing to build the Left.<br /><br />I think 'screeching' is more than applicable to the woman who followed me and whose sole argument was that the far-Right opposed positive discrimination. I wasn't at all upset at the heckling, though it is a good commentary on the role of the Chair. I've suffered far worse! <br /><br />I take the point about feminists not being responsible for the defeat of the Left in Unison, but positive discrimination has made the task of evicting the right more not less difficult.<br /><br />Like you I certainly hope that the next conference will be more productive. I have my doubts though.Tony Greensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14300640929161205370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-74440473081140045612013-12-05T00:31:20.389+00:002013-12-05T00:31:20.389+00:00Crikey Tony! I thought dinosaurs were extinct unti...Crikey Tony! I thought dinosaurs were extinct until I read this. I know you were upset about the heckling but "screeching feminists" and "hysterical women"? Really?<br /><br />Just a quick history lesson on Unison. The principles of proportionality and self-organisation were won in the teeth of right-wing opposition going right back to Nalgo days. The right only conceded it when they were staring defeat in the face. If you want to look at why the right is ascendant in Unison look no further than the failure of the left there to organise rather than scapegoating "feminists". <br /><br />You've obviously decided to take a glass half empty approach to Left Unity - 500+ people gathered to put a left of Labour Party organisation without the "help" of the existing self-interested far left parties - that's up to you. But you must have been in a different room if you think bedroom tax "didn't get a mention". <br /><br />Obviously, with hindsight they tried to do too much in one day, but everyone's still learning.<br /><br />There is a further Conference in March to discuss policy, with discussions still going on in the branches - a real bottom-up process for a change.Andy Richardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01441557191138845101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-82961270754178738182013-12-04T23:02:09.643+00:002013-12-04T23:02:09.643+00:00I’m afraid Tony’s rants against feminism (both at ...I’m afraid Tony’s rants against feminism (both at the conference and on his site) comes across as “women bashing” and puts everyone’s backs up. You can have a perfectly reasonable argument about the importance of taking positive action in political parties to overcome the under-representation of women and discrimination against them (overt or covert). <br /><br />I think its not a bad idea to aim for 50% representation of women in the leadership of LU – there are plenty of competent women around in LU to achieve that in a leadership of 50/60. Not sure I would insist on it in the constitution but sometimes to reach a goal you have to impose it (like all women short lists for a number parliamentary seats in the LP). The question then becomes what positive action steps you take to ensure women feel confident to contribute on a leadership body – caucuses, education etc.<br /><br />Just ranting about middle class feminist and barristers gets us nowhere – how about the middle class men and male barristers who attend the LU leadership? Tony says nothing about them. The answer lies in getting more worker activists involved in LU, male female, black white, gay straight. Then you have a political choice between a bigger pool of women, black members minorities for all posts.<br /><br />StuartAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-38999323637505791162013-12-04T22:37:56.146+00:002013-12-04T22:37:56.146+00:00In the wake of all this, I'm rejoining the SWP...In the wake of all this, I'm rejoining the SWP. Better than this shower.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-41346199668541684712013-12-04T08:18:00.558+00:002013-12-04T08:18:00.558+00:00Very interesting, thanks Tony. Good to see a balan...Very interesting, thanks Tony. Good to see a balanced and reasoned appraisal not just "rah rah it's great to have unity" nor sectarian attack. Andy Ford, Manchester Socialist PartyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-75405622856937531142013-12-03T23:48:45.053+00:002013-12-03T23:48:45.053+00:00Hi Cecile,
I'm sorry you had nerves but I thi...Hi Cecile,<br /><br />I'm sorry you had nerves but I think the Chair wanted to selection a black woman anyway! I suspect the nearest she's been to an EDL demonstration is from the TV news.<br /><br />I don't think the RSA will be other than one of a no. of small tendencies but that is fine. Left Unity was supposed to take this and many other th ings on board but the mixture of bourgeois feminism and advocates of the 'mixed economy' probably rules that out. Strategy is the main thing, how we really unite the left, not how we help group of careerists climb the greasy ladder.<br /><br />I've seen it all before and the main problem lies in the combativity of the class itself. E.g. there has been no real resistance to the bedroom tax, a subject that didn't get a mention.Tony Greensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14300640929161205370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-46903741823695031142013-12-03T19:18:15.892+00:002013-12-03T19:18:15.892+00:00Dear Tony Greenstein,
Although very new to politi...Dear Tony Greenstein,<br /><br />Although very new to political activism (and a woman) I attended the conference as a supporter of the Republican Socialist Alliance (RSA). I have no idea what you think the RSA's prospects are but I wanted to share with you my initial reaction about positive discrimination (which I expressed in an email to our alliance, as we were being asked to comment on the conference): <br /><br />Howdy brothers and sisters ;)<br /> <br />I have quite a lot of positive and less positive thoughts about the conference but would be happier to share them in the next meeting. One of the things I wished had happened is that my fear of public speaking had not got hold of me when this hysterical (I don't mean 'funny ha ha') woman spoke so indignantly about the right thing to do about gender quotas in groups. I really, really took exception to being virtually called a fascist (or conservative or far-right) for my opinion that there should be no quota. I wish I had stood up and calmly said something like 'I'm sorry for wanting to uphold the values of the Enlightenment, lady and f*** you too. If inside a party like LU women feel threatened that they're not going to be represented properly by men, they simply shouldn't join. Mistrust breeds fear and fear brings hatred and that's not the way, in my humble opinion, to be a feminist." On this I would have taken my top off wearing no bra to show I mean what I say. Ok, this last bit is a joke. Regards,"<br /> <br />Cecile Menon<br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02766641600357297421noreply@blogger.com