tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post6760375191940844417..comments2024-03-28T04:26:49.354+00:00Comments on Tony Greenstein's Blog: The Community Security Trust - Policeman of the Jewish CommunityTony Greensteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14300640929161205370noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-48709238880970141762012-01-30T11:05:40.337+00:002012-01-30T11:05:40.337+00:00The CST does not in any way shape or form represen...The CST does not in any way shape or form represent the Jewish community, it is a totally stand alone charity that hides behind over 50 overt & covert cctv cameras in its HQ, Shield House, Harmony Way Hendon. It may supply services to the community but there is a big difference between supplying a service and representing the whole of British Jewry which they claim to do! They clearly do not represent anyone other than their own opinion and the opinion of their secret and anonymous trustees. They have a significant monitoring dept that monitors anti Jewish groups such as neo Nazis & Islamic fundamentalists and this is their excuse for secrecy. I think they over estimate their importance. There are rumours that they may do a little more monitoring than the law allows and if anyone can verity either way please let us know? I understand that the top two salaries are in fact for Mr Richard Benson and Miss Carol Laser and that Mr Gardner is no 3!<br />Why a charity has to be so secretive is one question but how the government funds such a secretive charity is a far more serious issue? <br />Hate crime reporting is another sore point. Most of UK’s Jewish community do not want to use the CST for hate crime reporting so why have they received a £50,000 pa grant from the home office to run a hate crime reporting phone line when the Jewish community trust police and other than the very orthodox everyone is happy to call police directly. In any event the Very orthodox don’t like the CST and tend to call shomrim if anything but definitely do not call the CST.Reb Chaimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-90005537574365479392011-12-11T14:17:48.188+00:002011-12-11T14:17:48.188+00:00The CST represent themselves as representing the J...The CST represent themselves as representing the Jewish Community on security matters. In fact they are self appointed & represent no one but their own opinions. If anyone dares challenge them they tend to get quite nasty! <br />The only community to get things right for once is the orthodox jewish community who simply dont allow the cst into their buildings nor do they allow the cst to put up their notices on their notice boards!Aldermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-66730496773477700042009-03-16T19:36:00.000+00:002009-03-16T19:36:00.000+00:00Tch, tch. You mustn't tell people, not least the ...Tch, tch. You mustn't tell people, not least the blog owner, to shut up with their moaning. Free speech is all about moaning - not that I was moaning.<BR/><BR/>In fact whatever the Board of Deputies is it certainly isn't democratic. I refer e.g. to the following comments on the 'somethingJewish' web site.<BR/><BR/>'But behind the Board lies an undemocratic and unelected organisation that claims to speak for all Jews when it fact it speaks for itself claiming to be in the best interests of Anglo-Jewry.<BR/> <BR/>Anglo-Jewry needs representation, what it doesn't really need is the Board of Deputies in its present shape and make up. http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/1573_board_should_shut_up.htm'<BR/><BR/>I could refer you to the book by ex-Jewish radical now reactionary, Geoffrey Alderman in his excellent book The Jewish Community in British Politics which caused a stir when it came out about 25 years ago.<BR/><BR/>Fact is that the BoD has more rotten boroughs than a Victorian Parliament. Old Sarum was nothing compared to its pocket boroughs. Synagogues which don't exist but which send delegates. <BR/><BR/>As for the UJS. There have been a number of articles and letters in the Jewish Chronicle about its lack of democracy, not even publishnig the figures of who received what votes in its annual elections. There is a very sparse participation by Jewish students in this ZIonist front organisation, funded by Israel to make propaganda for it on campuses.<BR/><BR/><BR/>So if I went through the 'proper structures' I'd get lost in a thicket of bribes, nods and winks. I prefer open politics thanks.<BR/><BR/>The CST isn't elected anyway but what it is is a sponge and bloodsucker on what is an ageing and declining Jewish population. As young people marry out there is noone to provide the funds for the elderly in care homes like that which my grandmother died, the appalling Stapley in Liverpool. <BR/><BR/>Far better to stuff Mark Gardener's mouth with gold to find anti-semitism where there is none and to confuse that which does exist with anti-Zionism.<BR/><BR/>The other problem of the BoD is that it doesn't represent secular Jewry (or ultra orthodox come to that). Up to half British Jews are on the way out of the community because it is narrow, insular and Israel obsessed. <BR/><BR/>Your post unfortunately, whether you mean it or not, plays into the hands of the BoD by suggesting people use the very means by which they keep control. I prefer open criticism. Sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-75720356771510382052009-03-16T18:23:00.000+00:002009-03-16T18:23:00.000+00:00Interesting post. The Issue isnt solely with the C...Interesting post. The Issue isnt solely with the CST though. The community in general does not like to hear alternative points of view.<BR/>The CST, UJS and Board of Deputies are representative bodies of the Jewish community. UJS and BoD are democratically elected bodies and i advise someone with these views to go through the proper structures to voice your opinion. Throwing a hissyfit when you refuse to be part of the structures is cowardly. If you have something to voice then i suggest you either go to your J-Soc or your Synagogue council and voice it.<BR/>If your unwilling to do this then just shut up with the moaning.Adam Langlebenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10888184482118399032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-936661548584649182009-03-04T09:40:00.000+00:002009-03-04T09:40:00.000+00:00Tony's problem with the CST is similar to mine - t...Tony's problem with the CST is similar to mine - that they might be documenting something but it isn't antisemitism. And this is frustrating. There may well have been an increase in antisemitism (I'd say there has) over the last few years - but when the antisemitism is conflated with antizionism by the politically (and as Tony shows, economically) motivated folks in the CST, it's impossible to tell.<BR/><BR/>Geoffrey Alderman sounds more and more fascinating. He might have defended the ANL in the '70s but recently he was attacking those who fought in Cable Street, indicating a complete about turn. He still maintains his independence - managing to attack both the Board of Deputies and IJV in some Guardian article last year. George Orwell once described Rudyard Kipling as maintaining a rugged independence from the ruling classes, while imbibing and being one of the most effective disseminators of their ideology. Maybe the same thing is going on here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-70838280189217734442009-03-03T19:03:00.000+00:002009-03-03T19:03:00.000+00:00Well yes, it is rubbish that someone shouting ‘fre...Well yes, it is rubbish that someone shouting ‘free Gaza’ or ‘stop Israeli war criminals’ in the earshot of someone who is Jewish should have that classified as an anti-Semitic incident. But you need to take up this conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism with the Community Security Thugs, not me!<BR/><BR/>And just because I deny that Jews are entitled to their own state doesn’t mean it isn’t anti-Semitic. I agree. It’s not anti-Semitic because it was the anti-Semites who were the most vociferous supporters of Jews having a state. It was they who said that Jews didn’t belong where they lived but in a separate, racial-ethnic state! <BR/><BR/>Perhaps our anonymous correspondent [why are such people loath to use their names?!] hasn’t heard of the great Jewish socialist, Isaac Deutscher, writing about Poland in 1938. This is what he wrote:<BR/><BR/>‘It should be remembered that the great majority of East European Jews were, up to the outbreak of the second World War} opposed to Zionism... the most fanatical enemies of Zionism were precisely the workers, those who spoke Yiddish... they were the most determined opponents of the idea of an emigration from East Europe to Palestine... in the idea of an evacuation, of an exodus from the countries in which they, had their homes and in which their ancestors had lived for centuries, the anti-Zionists saw an abdication of their rights, a surrender to anti-Semitism. To them anti-Semitism seemed to triumph in Zionism, which recognised the legitimacy and the validity of the old cry ‘Jews get out!' The Zionists were agreeing to get out.’<BR/><BR/>Isaac Deutscher, 'The Non Jewish Jew ' & Other Essays-The Russian Revolution and the Jewish Question' pp.66/7<BR/><BR/>And of course the anti-Semites and Zionists did make common cause. Who welcomed Theodore Herzl’s ‘Der Judenstaat’ [Jewish State] pamphlet? Not the Jews. When the Zionist Congress first proposed to meet in 1897 they chose Munich as their meeting place. The Jewish community was outraged and petitioned to have the meeting banned. They saw it as a ploy of the anti-Semites. Because as Herzl himself wrote in his memoirs: ‘“the anti-Semites will be our most dependable friends... our allies.” Hence why he sought a favourable review of Der Judenstaat from the premier anti-Semite of the day in France, Eduard Drumont, editor of the anti-Semitic paper, La Libre Parole. So if you are calling for a Jewish state. Fine, but you’re in the company of anti-Semites. Hence why the BNP are Israel’s most avid supporters today.<BR/><BR/>There is no ‘internationally agreed’ definition of anti-Semitism. There is a European Union Monitoring Committee working definition, but it has been widely criticised and has not been approved by any official body to my knowledge. It is politically loaded and contentious. People agree that hatred of Jews as Jews is anti-Semitic, that targeting Jews for attack, believing that Jews have particular racial characteristics, control various Governments through hidden conspiracies etc. is anti-Semitic. But when it comes to equating Israeli with Nazi practices, attacking Israel as an apartheid state, then there is no agreement and dictionary definitions are not neutral but simply reflect the existing viewpoint of the same ruling classes that used to target Jews. I’m a socialist and don’t take definitions of racism from the architects of a capitalist European or a Republican Congress. See my article below:<BR/>http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/apr/12/anattackonfreespeechAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-30719735268328838332009-03-02T23:56:00.000+00:002009-03-02T23:56:00.000+00:00"Someone shouting 'free Gaza' when someone Jewish ..."Someone shouting 'free Gaza' when someone Jewish is in earshot is likely to have the incident classified as 'anti-Semitic'."<BR/><BR/>Utter rubbish. <BR/><BR/>And just because you don't think that denying the Jews a State is not antisemitic doesn't mean it isn't. There is an internationally acceted definition that confirms that it is. That's the definition of the word 'definition' - it isn't like a smorgasbord from which you can pick and choose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-49193419602832275112009-03-02T22:01:00.000+00:002009-03-02T22:01:00.000+00:00The problem is that they don't document anti-semit...The problem is that they don't document anti-semitic attacks because they deliberately confuse them with anti-Zionist or pro-Palestinian incidents. Someone shouting 'free Gaza' when someone Jewish is in earshot is likely to have the incident classified as 'anti-Semitic'.<BR/><BR/>I don't agree that anti-Semitism can be 'managed' but if it good the point above is equally valid.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure that it is a good idea to separate out anti-Semitic from other forms of racism. That suggests it is a special case and the Police in Manchester and London do, I understand, separate them out. Given the predominance of anti-Muslim racism (even the BNP has been protesting at alleged attacks against Jews over Gaza!) I think it would be much better to stick to what we can all agree as anti-Semitism - attacks on Jews because they are Jews not attacks on Israel because it calls itself Jewish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-4661712979963346932009-03-02T21:48:00.000+00:002009-03-02T21:48:00.000+00:00"I don't accept that the CST does anything to comb..."I don't accept that the CST does anything to combat anti-Semitism"<BR/><BR/>Well the fact that they document it is a pretty good start. "What gets measured gets managed". It is much easier to register an AS incident with them than with the police and anyway the police do not separate antisemitism from other forms of racism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-67920801967674416902009-03-02T20:01:00.000+00:002009-03-02T20:01:00.000+00:00To Dave,I have also been intrigued by Geoffrey Ald...To Dave,<BR/><BR/>I have also been intrigued by Geoffrey Alderman and his journey to the right. In the late 1970's from everything I know he wasn't a right-wing Zionist. On the contrary he resigned from the Board of Deputies to hisses and boos. He was called the 'communal gadfly' by the Jewish Chronicle.<BR/><BR/>He not only defended the JSC but also criticised the Board of Deputies for their attacks on the Anti-Nazi League, when it was a genuine mass popular movement.<BR/><BR/>I believe he had a sea change, not sure why, but now he is the poor male relation of Mad Mel P with whose column his own appears in the JC.<BR/><BR/>He also wrote an excellent book, The Jewish Community in British Politics, which leading Zionists tried to persuade him to suppress for its information about Jews voting for the National Front in the 1974 General Elections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-50659311682188452452009-03-02T19:57:00.000+00:002009-03-02T19:57:00.000+00:00Apparently I'm a hypocrite for condemning anti-Sem...Apparently I'm a hypocrite for condemning anti-Semitism against myself but not against others. Of course, if that were true then the charge would be correct.<BR/><BR/>I rarely speak about anti-Semitism against myself because my primary experience of it is from Zionists and people whose politics are closely associated with the CST!<BR/><BR/>I don't accept that the CST does anything to combat anti-Semitism. Rather it seeks to conflate anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in order to help prop up the 'Jewish' State. In so doing it actually makes the incidence of anti-Semitism worse because crying wolf is a good way that people will become immune to the genuine article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-70025165659225473342009-03-02T19:11:00.000+00:002009-03-02T19:11:00.000+00:00http://www.marxists.de/racism/antisemitism/counter...http://www.marxists.de/racism/antisemitism/counterpunch.htm<BR/><BR/>Greenstein you are a complete hypocrite<BR/><BR/>You recognise antisemitism when YOU are the victim but not when the CST tries to protect OTHER victims.<BR/><BR/>The CST does a great job and we are lucky to have it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-640441812647446166.post-20160100084082201242009-03-02T10:31:00.000+00:002009-03-02T10:31:00.000+00:00Great post, Tony. It's good to have all this info ...Great post, Tony. It's good to have all this info about the CST collated in one place. <BR/><BR/>I was intrigued by Geoffrey Alderman's defence of the JSG's rights back in 1990, despite his right-wing Zionism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com