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Saturday, 6 June 2009

Mary Rizzo – Atzmon’s Useful Idiot

Mary Rizzo is the indefatiguable helper and accomplice of notorious anti-Semite Gilad Atzmon, with whom she runs the Palestine Thinktank.

Indeed she is a friend and supporter of any and all the anti-Semites hovering on the fringes of the Palestine solidarity movement – Israel Shamir, Paul Eisen, Atzmon of course. And on the blogs she runs, first Peace Palestinian and now the Palestine Sink Tank – she does her best to provide them with a platform. Which isn’t surprising because the Sink Tank makes it clear what its view of Jewish participation in anti-Zionist politics:
‘We truly think that Jewish tribal politics has absolutely no place within the Palestinian solidarity discourse. Palestinian solidarity is primarily about Palestine rather than prosaic wars against imaginary anti-Semitism. However, we suggest that if the proponents of Jewish ideology and tribal interests insist upon interfering with Palestinian solidarity activism, they really should invest a lot more effort into hiding their crude agenda.’
Shades of conspiracies or what?

Likewise she is a great believer in the idea that all Jews have common interests, although these are rarely defined:

‘You are safe as milk, Tony, since you are a blog that protects Jewish interests’

But if Ms Rizzo is challenged about the fact that she is anti-Semitic then she has a stock response.

‘You call me rabidly anti-semitic. Come out with one thing I have ever printed as such. Just one will do!’

However there is a catch. If you do come out with 1 (or 20) anti-semitic things she’s said, she’ll deny their anti-Semitic!

But then Mary is no intellectual. She leaves that to Atzmon, who believes himself to be a great philosopher, alongsItalicide Israel Shamir and Paul Eisen. So, when, not so long ago, she was asked, in view of her association with Atzmon, to at least distance herself from Atzmon's svengali, Israel Shamir, she reacted with her normal outrage when asked to condemn any manifestation of anti-Semitism:
‘But, PLEASE don't bother with your argumentation, because just as much as you have on your view, others have on the other,… I never saw Shamir on this list, Tony. … So, since I don't believe Shamir is an anti semite, it is not "incumbant" upon me to demonstrate diddly squat to you about my support of the Palestinian cause.’
Of course this is true. It is not incumbent upon Rizzo to criticise anything, least of all racism. But some of us find it difficult to oppose racism against the Palestinians and support it against Jews. Indeed most people find it difficult to know how many Jewish people, themselves the victims of racism, can defend Zionist racism. Which is why those of us who are anti-Zionists also oppose anti-Semitism. Not so Rizzo who believes that criticism of Shamir was nothing buit a ‘smear campaign’. She asks:
‘Why should I be obligated to join in on the smear campaign? …. I am convinced that there are indeed attempts made at ritutal defamation both against Shamir, and oftentimes on this board, against myself, Paul, Gilad, Chris Ledbetter, hell, far too many people for my Taste
And what of Israel Shamir, who Rizzo is convinced is anything but an anti-Semite? Well we are spoilt for choice. We could cite his views that the British National Party is not anti-Semitic enough!

Or his comments about Auschwitz.
Another go of Zionist propaganda. The camp was an internment facility, attended by the Red Cross (as opposed to the US internment centre in Guantanamo). If it were bombed, the internees would die – or as a result of the bombing, or due to starvation for the supplies would not arrive.
Anti-Semitic? Perish the thought.

But if she resented having to criticise Shamir, she was very much in favour of defending Paul Eisen.
I am very much annoyed that people have been carrying on with a badmouthing of Paul Eisen. It is actually pretty disheartening.

This is the Eisen who writes, on the web site of Deir Yassin Remembered that:
The Holocaust too has come under assault. Over the last fifty years, revisionist scholars have amassed a formidable body of substantial evidence, which runs in direct opposition to the traditional Holocaust narrative. "Where is the evidence," they say, "for this alleged gargantuan mass-murder? Where are the documents? Where are the traces and remains? Where are the weapons of murder?" These revisionists all acknowledge of course, that there was a terrible assault on Jews on the part of the National Socialist government, but disagree as to the scale, motive, and methods cited in the typical narrative, a narrative that most of us choose or are obliged to accept. "What befell the Jews", they say, "was a brutal ethnic cleansing accompanied by dispossession, pillage and massacre.
And when she posted an article with a photo of myself and ‘JEW’ printed underneath her ‘defence’? That this was copied from the Zionist campaign to free Gilad Shalit. And that’s true. Her racism is a reflection of Zionist racism.

Unfortunately Mary has developed both an oversized ego and a feeling that she is persecuted because of all the criticism she gets. So she hit on the idea, with Atzmon, of running a petition in support of herself (which she duly signed, although the signatories seem to have disappeared from the Redress site where it originated). The petition praises her and Atzmon as 'two outstanding personalities'!!!

Below are a sample of the anti-Semites who have signed this ‘petition’, including Daniel McGowan, a supporter of Ernst Zundel, Wendy Campbell and The Radical Press (alongside a survivor of Auschwitz, Hajo Meyer who along with Ellen Rohlfs couldn’t remember signing!).

Wendy Campbell, California, USA, MarWen Media
Daniel McGowan, Geneva, NY, Exec. Director, Deir Yassin Remembered
Dr Hajo G. Meyer, Heiloo, the Netherlands, survivor of Auschwitz
The Radical Press, Canada

Let us have a look at one of the signatories, one Wendy Campbell who runs her own web site.

Eernst Zundel is one of the foremost holocaust deniers. He is currently in gaol in Germany. Now I happen to oppose criminalising holocaust denial, not least because it makes martyrs of those who justify the murder of millions of Jews and non-Jews by the Nazis. But I can think of people far more deserving of sympathy and support than defenders of the most barbaric regime the world has seen. Asylum seekers for example, prisoners of conscience. But for Campbell and the DYR brigade it is Nazi sympathisers who are the world's most persecuted species. Of Zundel she asks:

‘Why is Ernst Zundel in jail?’ Campbell asks, ‘Because the Zionists want him there, since he has publicly questioned aspects of their favorite obsession and political war-time propaganda tool: the Holocaust…. as far as I can tell, he is not advocating violence against anyone, and furthermore, has never committed violence against anyone.

And like Rizzo, Campbell is a supporter of Paul Eisen, the sensitive ‘intellectual’ of Rizzo and Atzmon’s anti-Semitic clique. In his article ‘Holocaust Wars’ he quotes Zundel’s wife’s letter to him:
Dear Paul,

Many WWII soldiers (now very old) have told me that World War II - that is, the war against the East - was really a preventive/defensive war against Communism, which was Jewish. Europe was about to be overrun by the Red Terror - Stalin had amassed his assault troops at the border, and it was only a matter of weeks, so Hitler hit first. ….
Ingrid

In one short paragraph we have the Bolshevik-Communist conspiracy and a justification for Hitler’s wars of expansion. Eisen is visibly moved, writing:
How do those Germans now nearing the end of their lives, feel when told that what seemed so right then and perhaps even still seems so right, was in fact so wrong?’ Clearly there’s no sympathy with those trade unionists, socialists, democrats who died in places like Dachau, Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald etc:
And when Eisen posted a comment on her blog fantasising about the murder of Jews:
The Ukrainian peasant listens (for a couple of hundred years) about why the Jewish tavern keeper, tax farmer, landlord or whatever is doing what he's doing for the sake of 'tolerance' freedom' or 'human rights' But the time comes when he's just had enough. He lifts his axe and splits the Jews head - it's what they call a pogrom.
Jewish power needs to be confronted - peacefully and intelligently - and the sooner the better for everyone.Paul Eisen 01.13.08 - 9:16 pm #
What was Rizzo’s response? Condemnation? No, a gentle reminder that he may be misquoted!!!
‘Paul, you realise that statement of yours is going to me misquoted, out of any context and interpreted as your approval of pogroms…. Just so you understand why these attacks are as they are. People just want to do it and they will twist your words in order to do so.'
thecutter 01.13.08 - 9:45 pm #

And if there is any doubt, then Eisen makes his views clear in a posting of 26th February 2007. ‘Regarding gas, again I am not sure but the evidence for the use of homicidal gas-chambers is not good at all. The evidence against it is much, much stronger.’

It would be tedious to list all the anti-Semitic articles on Campbell’s site, but 9-11 Truth and The Holocaust which is on The Radical Press site is a particular gem!

But the Jewel in the Crown of signatures was none other than Canada’s Radical Press. Its site is a wonder to behold. We are informed that:

'Judaism is a “chameleon” culture/religion. It “becomes” whatever is necessary in order to deceive and trick non-Jews'
It has whole sections on 'Jewish Banking Cartel (82) Jewish Holocaust Industry (77) Jewish Lobby (112) Jewish Media Monopoly (105) Jewish Porn Industry (50) Jews (148) Jews Behind Bolshevik Revolution'

and of course an obligatory article entitled:
AMERICA IS RUN BY JEWS By Brother Nathanael Kapner:
'AMERICA IS NOW A JEW-RUN NATION. Here is a list of the prominent Jews who run America:' and more and more, yawn. And Atzmon writes and contributes articles to it for example

Gilad Atzmon - The Primacy of the Ear
Thursday, January 10th, 2008

[Thanks to Gilad for sending along this wonderful article. Ed.]

But as with Israel Shamir, Rizzo had a different take on matters:
‘THIS is what I wrote in support of Radical Press: Jan 17, 2008
Dear Editor,
The issue of peace in the Middle East is far too important for anyone to attempt to think it can only be dealt with between other “more important” issues such as sporting events and what Paris Hilton is doing these days. Yet, I do understand (as I am a journalist myself) that people do like to read things they already agree with that don’t challenge anything they think they already know, and especially, they don’t get encouraged to think out of the box.
At any rate, The Radical Press presents thought-provoking and intelligent information and analysis. It is absolutely NOT anti-Semitic, but many who might not agree with its harsh critique on Israel might try to label it as such, so that people will create confusion between the two, and things never change.
I hope you realise that it is a valuable resource, and any campaigning made to insinuate that it is a racist site is not at all accurate.
Mary Rizzo
Comment by thecutter — 10 February, 2008 @ 9:57 am
She further commented:
If we are talking about other sites, The Radical Press had come under pressure by some people who wanted it to be closed down. Knowing who most of these people are, it was easy enough for me to assume they were considering things in a way that was jaundiced. It was odd that it was Anti-Zionist Jews doing it, not Zionists… This happens far too often for me to believe it is simply accidental. The Radical Press explained to me that they were an anti-Zionist site and that they were dedicated to the Palestinian cause. So, I went to the site, took a look, not deeply, basically into a few issues on Palestine that were good, because I don’t have all the time Tony, andy and Goodwin have, and it looked fine to me. I am not responsible for the content they have, nor am I their editor. I am another blogger and I defend the rights of bloggers dedicated to the Palestinian cause to do what they do, who come under attack far too often. If they are being forced to change because of pressure, I will defend them to NOT have to endure pressure. I don’t see Tony running around to close ZIONIST blogs and sites, not in the slightest, so I am not going to campaign to have Pro-Palestinian ones shut down. Each blog or site is the image of the creator, not the reader, so I believe that if we value the fact that creators select material that they wish, this is their right. Why should I feel ashamed to defend an editor in a site? I can’t vouch for the entire site, and why should I? Who am I, the thought police? I can find Brother Kapner’s article a total piece of shite, and it probably is, but I am not about to waste time to investigate every article on Jews, nor read them because someone wants me to express some opinion. It simply is not that interesting to me. I look at the value of a site in how they are able to express the Palestinian cause as being the result of Zionism and of the lack of awareness as to what Zionism is. I am not going to delve into the rest, because my time is limited. Comment by thecutter — 12 February, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
you see, her time is limited. And anyway why don’t I try and close a few Zionist sites. Presumably my involvement in the Boycott Campaign doesn’t count. But why should it since her friend Atzmon considers a Boycott of Israeli Universities to be an example of ‘book burning’.
‘interfering with academic freedom isn’t exactly something I can blindly advocate. Unlike some of my best enlightened friends, I am against any form of gatekeeping or book burning. But it goes further, I actually want to hear what Israelis and Zionists have to say. I want to read their books. I want to confront their academics. If justice is on our side we should be able to confront them.’
And on the same thread she later said:

Hey, you want me to denounce a site I came into contact with a few weeks ago? The site owner was directed to me by someone who told me that the site was receiving heavy threats from someone like (probably) Goodman. The webmaster, who is not even the author of the piece wrote me telling me they were a site that was anti-Zionist and defended Palestinian rights. I am not anyone’s judge, just like no one is mine, but I went in, the home page looked ok, I clicked on the articles that interested me, and I found them of value. What more can I say. In fact, now you can dance around claiming victory because I tell you I didn’t read the whole site and my views were expressed on the articles that are relevant to Zionism and Israel, which is what I am interested in. If there are things that are questionable, I regret that I defended a site I do not know like the pockets of my jeans, knowing that anything and everything will be used by those trying to attack me who have nothing to do all day but plug my name in on Google. It is tiring being stalked guys, you can stop now, unless you think this is political activism. I think it is sick in the head and deranged. I however am not going to grovel for you, and I’m not going to denounce any sites, not even this “sewer”!!! Let it be! I mean, what the hell, we are in a free world where people can write what they want and others comment as they feel. Or aren’t we? Comment by thecutter — 12 February, 2008 @ 10:42 pm
So Mary Rizzo, who is happy to denounce me, even to try and persuade Palestinians to sign a petition denouncing me, is unwilling to denounce an anti-Semitic sewer. And why? Well I’ll leave it to you to draw the obvious conclusion.

On 14th February Mary Rizzo removed the link to The Radical Press and in addition removed her link to a site run by Klan Wizard David Duke, however Wendy Campbell remains:

36 comments:

Gert said...

It's truly sad the Palestinian Cause is to be infected by anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial. Fighting racism with racism is absurd and seriously immoral.

Shame on you Mary Rizzo for (among other things) giving ammunition to the anti-Palestinian Zionist trolls at Harry's Place...

Tony Greenstein said...

Unfortunately Mary and co. don't get it. They think that wittering on about Jewish interests, Jewish power etc. will somehow reveal the secret of the Palestinian plight. That is the consequence of rejecting any analysis of imperialism and colonialism. You focus on racial factors instead. Hence the obsession with holocaust denial (though they then pretend - apart from Shamir - that they are denying it).

But yes, the only contribution in the end, is to give succour and support to people like the idiots of Harry's Place.

joe90 kane said...

There's a brilliant headline on the Thick Tank at the moment, it reads -
- Greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Underneath, in much smaller print it reads -
- NOTE: The following piece was published by Yedioth Ahronot on 21.12.2006 online.

Stalin's Jews

By Sever Plocker

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish


It's no wonder Jews are so unpopular - and why everyone loves Mary and Gilad and that Arab bloke who does all the Sick Tank housework for them.

Anonymous said...

"that Arab bloke who does all the Sick Tank housework for them."

Tony Greenstein's Blog
Socialist, anti-Zionist, anti-racist

:-)

joe90 kane said...

"that Arab bloke who does all the Sick Tank housework for them."

Obviously the irony is lost on the anonymous commenteer.

Two white privileged and very safe Europeans taking it upon themselves to do all the intellectual work, editing and censoring the natives, and admitting that their one token Arab is only there to do the menial tasks of looking after the website.

Hence the reason I call it the 'Thick Tank', as they can't even see the irony of their own replicating the oppression of western colonialism and imperialism on their own little squalid representation of western racism.

Taking a part in the racist system of your own repression is the stuff of Malcolm X.


Anonymous hasn't much to say about the deliberate demonisation and de-humanisation by an avowdly oppressed Arab of another of the world's put-upon oppressed minorities which has also suffered horrific racist abuse.

Joshua said...

I remember when I first started using Blogspot that I linked Peace Palestine to my blog purely because I found it on Antony Loewenstein's blog being linked also. I took only cursory glances at it without further paying attention to what Rizzo had put on the site. I also found a good piece there by a Palestinian criticising Steven Plaut which is all fine with me.


Then it went all downhill when I saw her exchange with yourself and how her and Atzmon were enjoying ridiculing the fact you were Jewish. I never read much or any of Rizzo's work but I then found that her Peace Palestine blog (which is dead) was filled with Atzmon filth. Needless to say that was the end of my relationship with her site and anything affiliated with her. (It was mainly thanks to Mark at JSF that I found her incensed hatred of Jews and led me to your blog also.)

It gave me a lesson that I should really be more careful on who I want associated with.

Anonymous said...

So, its not racist to talk about Arab houseboys - its irony?

As a point of interest, are Israelis european these days?

Is this also irony?

"That is the consequence of rejecting any analysis of imperialism and colonialism. You focus on racial factors instead."

And presumably part of not focussing on racial factors is the setting up of groups like Jews for Justice for Palestinians, Jewish Socialists and Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods?

Tony Greenstein said...

Our anonymous Atzmonite asks whether it is racist to talk of Arab houseboys. Well yes it probably is, though no more so than Jewish houseboys. It depends on the context.

But why is Zionist and Israeli Jewish racism a justification for anti-Semitism? Is racism the way to fight racism? Isn't that exactly what Zionism did?

The idiocy of this comment is best demonstrated by asking whether J-Big, JfJP and the JSG is an example of racial exclusivity and racism. The answer is, of course not. All the above groups accept anyone who defines themselves as Jewish. There are no racial criteria.

They are no more racist than a Christians or Muslims for Peace or any other similar group.

But more importantly whether such a group is racist depends on the content of their politics. I'm not aware of any of the above groups advocating racism.

On the contrary J-Big for example campaign for a Boycott and Sanctions against Israeli goods and institutions? Is that racism? The Zionists would say so so we have another example of agreement between the Atzmonites and Zionism. Both JfJP and JSG campaign against Zionist oppression of the Palestinians and the racism of the Israeli state. Why is that racist?

I somehow doubt that anonymous will have that many answers, such is the price of stupidity.

REJ GOCH said...

It is hardly possible for you to tie yourself up in more knots than you did in your last post.
Firstly you state that the use of the term 'Arab houseboys' could only be judged as racist if the context is taken into account. You then go on to completely ignore the context in which it was used, which in this case was undeniably racist.
Secondly, you ask, "But why is Zionist and Israeli Jewish racism a justification for anti-Semitism?". Nobody said that it was.
Thirdly, you continue to misuse the term 'anti-semitism'. You mean anti-Jewish, so what stops you from saying what you mean?
Fourthly, you can't make up your mind what racism is. You say that being anti-Jewish is racist and implicit in that is your idea that Jews are a race. Then you turn your argument on its head, "The idiocy of this comment is best demonstrated by asking whether J-Big, JfJP and the JSG is an example of racial exclusivity and racism. The answer is, of course not. All the above groups accept anyone who defines themselves as Jewish. There are no racial criteria." You can't have it both ways. If being anti-Jewish is racist, then excluding people because they are not Jewish is equally racist.
This all comes about because of the way you deliberately confuse anti-Zionist with anti-Jewish whenever it suits your argument, a tactic which Zionists have always used themselves. You can see the way that this works in the current crop of pro-Zionist letters currently appearing in the Independent.
I think it is time you stopped posing as some kind of intellectual and tried to master basic logic first. If you are the best that Socialist Unity have to offer then I am not surprised that they are such an insignificant and tiny sect.

Tony Greenstein said...

Yes, the term 'Arab houseboy' is highly likely to be racist since it implies that Arabs are only fit for menial labour serving others, but it depends on the context and the anonymous poster gave no context.

The suggestion made by Anon that JfJP etc. were racial organisations when they are clearly political organisations opposed to racism seems to me to be a clear example of counterposing Zionist racism to Atzmonite anti-Semitism, since this is an argument he often trots out.

Anti-semitism is understood by most normal people, Goch excepted, as meaning anti-Jewish racism. Words and phrases take on meaning through usage. It was 'invented' by a German anti-Semite William Marr in the middle of the 19th century and is understood to specifically mean anti-Jewish not anti-Arab racism, by assuming that Jews are semites - which of course they are not.

The confusion is all yours Goch. To say that being anti-Jewish is racist does NOT imply that Jews are a race. By your 'logic' the Nazis weren't racist because neither Aryans nor Jews were a race. What is implicit in Goch's sophisticated 'analysis' is the idea that there are races whereas in fact they are artificial constructs which have no biological or genetic foundations. So yes, it is quite easy to target a specific group, be they Jews, Arabs or whoever for discrimination and hate and that makes you a racist and that is exactly what Rizzo and co. do.

Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods is obviously not racist, though Zionists, Goch, Rizzo and Atzmon clearly disagree. J-Big (JfJP, JSG) exclude no one. They aren't there to fight for Jewish rights or supremacy but to oppose Zionism which claims that Jewish people support what Israel does to the Palestinians. They are no more racist than White South African Groups like End Conscription which targetted other Whites.


That is why I say it depends on the context. Clearly is JSG sought to create privileges for Jewish Socialists as opposed to non-Jewish socialists or sought to oppress non-Jews in the name of Jewish Socialism then they would be racist. However they do none of these things.

I have never confused anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. That is the forte of Rizzo et al. It's you Goch who doesn't understand the difference, hence your concentration on attacking those Jewish groups who oppose racism against the Palestinians. And no doubt Christian groups in support of asylum seekers are also racist? Give us a break Goch, you clearly know nothing about the issues you witter on about.

I haven't read the Independent's pro-Zionist letters but what has that got to do with your comments? My letters to them have always been anti-Zionist whereas I don't suppose they would publish the semi-literate ravings of the Goch.

Socialist Unity is not a group and therefore I'm not a member of any group or sect of that name. I merely contribute guest articles to the blog of that name.

I would suggest that maybe Goch try writing something but I suspect he's not up to it and only the Palestine Sinktank would publish it anyway!

joe90 kane said...

I clearly explained the meaning of my comments but, like the true supporter of atzmon-rizzo that Anonymous is, they merely ignore my further explications.

I have taken note of their ignorance and respond accordingly and in kind, until I get something from them that looks vaguely 'intellectual'.


Richard Wilson,
the supporter of Atzmon who regards it as libellious to suggest he supports the ideas of Atzmon!

The thick tank indeed.

I love the racist extremists at the thick tank who can get away with murder but true anti-racists get treated to a far higher standard of morality, public probity and accountability.

The atzmon-rizzo supporters claim it isn't racist to deliberately doctor a headline, change its meaning and claim that history's greatest mass-murderers are Jews -
- but it is racist to point out the actual reality of the white-arab/intellectual-menial divide that the mis-named 'Palestine Think Tank' practices.

According to Anonymous and Richard Wilson standards, Malcolm X was also a racist for pointing out the black Americans who done the dirty house-work for white Americans, who would praise and flatter whitey and cast aspersions on their fellow blacks because they weren't deferential enough for everything hard-working whitey was doing for them out the goodness of their white hearts etc etc.

According to Richard Wilson's criteria, Hitler wasn't a racist because Jews aren't a race!

There is no such thing as human races really, but there are racists. It's not the fault of the victims of racism if their racist oppressers are a bit deluded about reality.

The only thing I find surprising here, is TG's willingness to treat Richard Wilson with the courtesy of an intelligent and civilised response given Wilson tedious time-wasting exploits (over a year long now, on TGB) so redolent of the intellectual and moral vacuity practiced by him and the antismetic cohorts of the Palestine Thick Tank.

Remember TG,
Richard Wilson writes letters to newspapers in support of Atzmon but threatens commenteers on your own blog for suggesting he supports the ideas of Atzmon

See letter to the Socialist Worker and email correspondence between Michael Rosen and goch nullity, here -
- The Poet's Cornered: Rosen without rhyme or reason regarding Atzmon -
- The Rosen Letters (by Richard Jones and Michale Rosen) -
peacepalestine
08 Jan 2007

all the best TGB

REJ GOCH said...

The fact that you cling to the belief that 'anti-semitism' refers only to Jews illustrates perfectly your mindset. I pointed out the actual meaning of the term as defined rather than your narrow interpretation, which as usual is tailored to suit your own prejudices. I also examined the logic of your own words, but for some reason you don't understand the logic of your own arguments and prefer to shift your ground to some new and spurious contention. You assume that I agree with your logic when I am merely pointing out that within the terms of your own discussion you do not make sense. Thank you for enlightening me about Socialist Unity. It is even of less significance than I had thought, but in spite of its name, it is just about as sectarian a blog as it could be and certainly suits your mentality down to the ground.

Anonymous said...

"That is the consequence of rejecting any analysis of imperialism and colonialism. You focus on racial factors instead."

In what way does attaching Jewish to a group name lead to an analysis of imperialism and colonialism or avoid a focus on racial factors?

"They are no more racist than White South African Groups like End Conscription which targetted other Whites."

What about 'Whites Ending Conscription'? Would that be racist?

It would certainly be inaccurate.

"The End Conscription Campaign was an anti-apartheid organisation allied to the United Democratic Front (UDF) and composed of conscientious objectors and their supporters in South Africa. It was formed in 1983 to oppose the conscription of all white South African men into military service in the South African Defence Force."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_Conscription_Campaign

"The United Democratic Front (UDF) was one of the most important anti-apartheid organisations of the 1980s. The non-racial coalition of about 400 civic, church, students', workers' and other organisations (national, regional and local) was formed in 1983, initially to fight the just-introduced idea of the Tricameral Parliament (the parliament was put in place in 1984 with the election of P. W. Botha of the National Party. Its slogan, "UDF Unites, Apartheid Divides" reflects the Front's broad support (about 3 million members)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Democratic_Front_(South_Africa)

A non-racial coalition fighting racist conscription is a bit different to the Jewish groups you are discussing.

Tony Greenstein said...

Goch doesn't understand, despite the brilliance of his own 'explanation', that words take on a meaning through usage. Anti-semitism has come to mean for well over a century anti-Jewish racism. Trust a pedant like Goch not go get it.

Anon tells us that End Conscription was allied to the UDF. And J-Big and other groups are part of the Palestine Solidarity movement in this country. Their leaflets are distributed from the Palestine Solidarity stall in Brighton where I live and no doubt others. I'm always being asked for their leaflets because it is a good counter to allegations of anti-semitism. How is that a racially exclusive group?

The purpose of organising as Jews is not to exclude others but to wage ideological war against the accusations of anti-Semitism. Even someone who is shy of putting a name to his/her post should see that.

It is no accident that it is US imperialism that uses the 'anti-semitism' charge most frequently, not least the Global Anti-semitism Review Act. It is an ideological weapon of US and western imperialism and Zionist colonialism. Hence why having Jewish groups opposed to Zionism or in support of the Palestinians is a good thing.

And that is why Atzmon and co. direct their main fire at jews not zionists, since their only analysis is a Zionist one.

REJ GOCH said...

Greenstein does not understand that just because he says a word has been re-defined that doesn't make it so. It is not pedantry to point out that his re-definition has not been universally accepted or to point out that that re-definition is a politically inspired one tailored to co-incide with certain ideologies and in this case, in particular - Zionism. Isn't it instructive how readily TG finds himself slipping so comfortably into Zionist clothes?
As for Kane he does not understand that when he directly accuses someone of something, the law demands that he be able to substantiate what he is saying and that if he cannot do this then he must retract and apologise or face the consequences of his own maliciousness. Now I have been fair and given him plenty of opportunities to withdraw and I realise that he is counting on the protection of a law that is extremely expensive to follow through and that, in all likelihood he believes he has nothing much to lose anyway, but there is more than one way for me to seek redress, which he will surely discover if he persists with his stupidity.

Tony Greenstein said...

I perfectly well understand that because I say something it doesn't mean it is so. However 99% of people who use the term anti-semitism mean it in the sense of anti-Jewish racism. It is common currency though maybe Goch, being a political hermit, doesn't understand such subtleties. The use of the term owes nothing to Zionism so I'm afraid you'll have to hang your sub-Atzmonism on someone else!

I can't imagine what these threats to poor Joe amount to. I imagine he is at this very moment quivering in his boots.

joe90 kane said...

I can't imagine what these threats to poor Joe amount to. I imagine he is at this very moment quivering in his boots.
-I sure am.
I can't stop laughing at this atzmon-rizzo male-power fantasist.

As I said TG,
this psychotic nut Richard Wilson writes letters to newspapers in support of Atzmon yet is claiming it's libelious for anyone in public to dare accuse him of supporting Atzmon.

It doesn't take a lawyer to work out the obvious weakness in any claims for damage that Windbag Wilson might make.

What it does need though, is some kind of psychiatrist to untangle the tiny labyrinth of Richard Wilson fantasy world. Unfortunately my attention span is too long to be that bothered about this atzmon-rizzo non-entity.


Mind you, even Atzmon agrees with the assumption that it is libelious for him to accuse any member of the public of being a supporter of his ideas, as he quickly caved into -
- Atzmon Eats Humble Pie for Suggesting that the answer to The Financial Crisis is Dejudification!
TBG
13 Oct 2008

all the best TG.

ps
...but there is more than one way for me to seek redress, which he will surely discover if he persists with his stupidity. -
- I don't know about the attitude of the police where Windbag Wilson lives, but my local Strathclyde Police take a dim view of threats being made across the internet, veiled or otherwise.

REJ GOCH said...

I see you have appointed yourself an expert on matters linguistic as well now. Your statistical claims for the usage of 'anti-semitic' are as wild and unfounded as most of what you say. The question is, if you mean 'anti-Jewish' why don't you just say 'anti-Jewish'? The problem might stem from the fact that so many of your opponents are themselves Jewish and you are therefore constantly undermined by your own arguments. The difference between them and you is that they do not choose to make their Jewishness the starting point of their political discourse or for that matter an important element of what they have to say. They start off with the human and they finish off with the human. That's what genuine fighters against racism do.

REJ GOCH said...

You have libelled me. Specifically in a post on June 3rd 2009 at 13.34 you allowed Joe Kane to post as follows...
"I think you'll find Tony
that according to Richard Wilson aka rej nullity ......
You'll also find that the Tsarist forgery 'The Protocols of the Elders' are in fact historically true."

I have asked to you to substantiate this particular libel or failing that to delete it from your blog and apologise.

Please inform Strathclyde Police as Joe suggests and see whether they feel I am being reasonable in pointing the libel out to you, requesting that you put matters right and failing responsible contrition on your part reserving my right to take all legal action to seek redress.

Furthermore in his latest post Kane refers to me as a "psychotic nut", one libel after another. I don't think his extreme behaviour is going to help your case, especially when I am being so reasonable.

joe90 kane said...

gobbledygook goch
with the prescription recipe for the difference between 'anti-Jewish' and 'antisemitic' -
- the thing is, antisemitism is racism whereas Richard Wilson has just invented a word for his own special purposes which is completely meaningless apart from the one he's just given it.

Isn't this the very crime dimwit wilson is accusing Tony Greenstein of committing?

'Anti-Jewish' isn't anything much if you think it doesn't mean anti-jewish racism. It's like saying "I'm anti-black but I'm not a racist, honest guv. I'm anti-catholic but have nothing against catholics."

I suppose all those Christian and Muslim charities that do so much good in the world will just have to call it a day, as they don't start with the human, nor end with the human.

Roman Catholic liberation theology anyone?

Or how about Muslim communists, such as Abdul Gamal Nassar?

How about Muslim Malcolm X, whose own religion helped inform him about how regressive his own anti-white racism was, and transformed him into a historical world figure and thinker worth listening to?


The problem might stem from the fact that so many of your opponents are themselves Jewish and you are therefore constantly undermined by your own arguments. -
- Jewish opponents such as American Christian zionists perhaps, or how about Scottish Presbyterian UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, or the Roman Catholic Tony Blair, or WASP Presidents such as George Bush I & II?

The trouble with Richard Wilson is that like, atzmon, he exists in a moral vacuum uninformed by anything practical such as the common meaning of antisemitism (as if its meaning is even questionable).

Windbag wilson starts off with gibberish, and ends up with gibberish. Just like atzmon, his glorious leader.


I see you have appointed yourself an expert on matters linguistic as well now.
- So who appointed you the linguistics expert and invested you with the authority to make such statements then goch, apart from yourself that is?

Your statistical claims for the usage of 'anti-semitic' are as wild and unfounded as most of what you say.
- Most of the authors, experts and academics I read, who study the subject and use the word, use it in the same way Tony Greenstein does. Authorities such as Ian Kershaw or Richard J. Evans and a gazillion and one other such scholars and experts on history, fasicsm and nazism.

Who is the authority you use goch, apart from atzmon?

REJ GOCH said...

My first point, Joe Kane, when entering the discussion on your ( and TG's ) misuse of the term 'anti-semitic' was to quote the Oxford English Dictionary...
"Semite
/seemit/
• noun a member of a people speaking a Semitic language, in particular the Jews and Arabs.
— ORIGIN from Greek Sem ‘Shem’, son of Noah in the Bible, from whom these people are traditionally descended."
There is no greater accepted authority on the meaning of words in English. I then went on to ask why, if you mean 'anti-Jewish' do you not use that term which is perfectly clear in itself.
You illustrate your own confusion perfectly when you use the term 'anti-Jewish racism'. On the one hand you would say that the Jews are not a race as such, yet you claim that to be anti-Jewish is to be racist. Let's see if we can agree on something, we are both against those who hate Jews either on grounds of religion or on spurious grounds of race.
I'm afraid the rest of your argument is unintelligible, so I'm quite content to let it speak for you as it is.
I notice that you have declined my invitation to withdraw your libellous statements or to refer the matter to Strathclyde Police. There is still time for you to put the first matter right and as for the police, please go ahead and let them judge who has been reasonable and who has not.

Tony Greenstein said...

Goch is nothing if not the master of pedantry. Yes the OEA and most other definitions of 'semite' relate to Semitic languges.

HOWEVER we are not talking about Semite but anti-Semitism. Now it can well be argued that Marr, when he defined anti-Jewish racism as anti-semitism got it wrong. Clearly he did BUT the fact is that the popular usage of anti-Semitism doesn't mean racism against those who speak semitic languages but anti-Jewish racism. That is the sense I use it in, the popularly accepted usage and if you also look anti-semitism up in the OED you'll probably find that there too!

REJ GOCH said...

The way you use language is important if you want to make sure that there is no room for misunderstanding. I am suggesting, for the sake of clarity, that when you mean 'anti-Jewish' you should say 'anti-Jewish'. Let's try and clear up another one. We are both opposed to people who are anti-Jewish, but, to me, you seem more than a little confused. Do you regard the Jews as a race? If not, how can being 'anti-Jewish' be regarded as 'racism'? You would not, I take it, say that being 'anti-Catholic' is being racist towards Catholics. Incidentally, this conversation with 2 people is quite perplexing. I ask some questions of Joe Kane and instead his master's voice pops up to answer. Are you worried,TG, that Joe is getting himself into a deeper and deeper mess every time he posts? I would be, if I were you, after all, the libels are being published, without check, on your site. Has Joe been to see Strathclyde Police yet? I'll be up there next week. Maybe I should pop in and see them myself and save himn the bother of breaking into his busy schedule.

joe90 kane said...

TG,
I can recommend Prof Richard J. Evans In Defence of History (2001) where the good prof informs the reader as to the correct orthography of the term for anti-Jewish racism, which he says is spelt thus antisemitism.
This is the spelling I use.


I notice that you have declined my invitation to withdraw your libellous statements or to refer the matter to Strathclyde Police. There is still time for you to put the first matter right and as for the police, please go ahead and let them judge who has been reasonable and who has not.
- My understanding goch nullity,
is that you have already withdrawn your invitation, and that you are going to take the law into your own hands and seek personal revenge.

I also understand your threats are being directed against Tony Greenstein as well, but you seem to have forgotten to offer him any generous terms this time round.

Police aren't interested in Richard Wilson's little fantasy world of invented hurts and slights to his male ego - which are never-ending and mostly based on Richard Wilson's hilarious lack of knowledge about what he's talking about.

What the police are interested in is threats made by male-power balloons like Wilson, on ego trips, threatening to visit revenge on people.

I notice Richard Wilson has again failed to withdraw his threat of a vendatta against me and taking the law into his own hands.

Just in passing,
how many times is that now Richard Wilson has issued the exact same threat against me?
Windbag Wilson, full of hot-air and not the least bit credible.

In fact, to tell the truth I've forgotten what it is that windbag wilson is whinging on about.
Something to do with it being libelious to be associated with the ideas of Atzmon I think.
And yet, this is Richard Wilson who writes letters to newspapers in support of Atzmon and indeed one of the reasons he visits TBG he says is -
The reason we defend Gilad from your constant attacks is that we have a high regard for truth and we will not allow the constant slanders to go unchallenged.
rej goch 24 May 2009 11:35
'An Open Letter to the SWP: Have you broken with Atzmon?'
TGB
22 May 2009

This is quite a performance by windbag wilson by any standards. He comes on TBG to defend Atzmon but ends up agreeing with TBG devotees that Atzmon is a libelious racist.

Richard Wilson, is there anything else about Atzmon you consider libelious?


Anyway, back to the real world,
this is Richard Wilson, the supporter of Atzmon who criticises Jewish people for practicing 'tribal ethics' rather than universal ethics.
Now, if Wilson's threats against me, that he is going to take the law into his own hands, isn't primitive and tribal I don't know what is.
So much for the self-proclaimed universalists at the stink tank.

If that wasn't all,
Wilson, instead of practicing and acknowldeging what is the universal, common usage of the term 'antisemitism' - he prefers instead to pick and choose from whatever academic dictionary definition takes his fancy, which TG points out has nothing to do with the term 'antisemitism'.
Tribal or what!

joe90 kane said...

(continued from my previous comment)

Part of Richard Wilson's refusal to abandon his tribal practices and adopt the universal usage of antisemitism stems from the fact that he thought Atzmon and Mary Bizarro were Jewish and tried to defend them as such -
Rej Goch 27 May 2009 17:00 'Part 1'
'An Open Letter to the SWP: Have you broken with Atzmon?'
TGB
22 May 2009

Richard Wilson claims (Part 2, his next comment) that I was being 'anti-Jewish' by calling Atzmon and Mary Bizarro 'rootless cosmopolitans'.

I am reduced to telling a fanatical supporter of Atzmon what it is he is supposed to be supporting, what Atzmon says about 'Jewishness' and the reasons Atzmon gives for his views ie historical antisemitic forgeries are true.
Also I have to tell Richard Wilson that Rizzo-Atzmon ain't Jewish - and Wilson denounces me for accusing him of believing Atzmon's views on historical Tsarist documents!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the bizarre world of these 3 loonies, truly.

I mean, Richard Wilson thought Socialist Unity was a political party and denounced it as some obscure sect -
If you are the best that Socialist Unity have to offer then I am not surprised that they are such an insignificant and tiny sect.
Rej Goch 11 June 2009 11:05

When corrected, the denunciations continued apace -
Thank you for enlightening me about Socialist Unity. It is even of less significance than I had thought, but in spite of its name, it is just about as sectarian a blog as it could be and certainly suits your mentality down to the ground.
Rej Goch 11 June 2009 23:13

A political party and a blog - it's easy to get the two objects confused!!

all the best TGB.

Gert said...

Considering that modern genetics doesn't recognise the concept of human 'races' (fuzzily defined 'gene pools', yes, but strictly defined 'races', no) even the term racism is a remnant from a past when 'racial science' was still considered valid science and not quack or pseudo science like the now thoroughly debunked 'eugenics'. But through popular use the term 'racism' somehow stuck and its meaning is now well understood and agreed upon. Terms like 'anti-Semitism', 'antisemitism', 'Judeophobia' and 'anti-Jewish racism' can thus be used interchangeably without creating any confusion or without loss of meaning.

Similarly the terms 'anti-Semitism' or 'antisemitism' are misnomers and relics of the past, yet their meaning is well understood and not in dispute, as 'anti-Jewish hatred' or 'racism directed at Jews'.

Only once in my blogging life did I encounter someone who disputed the meaning of the term anti-Semite and that was by an open and avowed anti-Semite and Holocaust denier.

Tony Greenstein said...

It's very easy Goch. Races don't exist, but racism does. A race is a political/social-economic construct. Racism means discrimination/hate etc. on the basis of arbitrary characteristics.

By your definition Zionism isn't racist because the Palestinians aren't a race. And of course the Nazis weren't for the same reasons.

Yes of course hatred against Catholics can be racist. I remember a leader of the UDA and member of the NF, Steve Brady, telling me that in the North of Ireland Catholics were considered just like Blacks here. Once a Catholic always a Catholic as far as they were concerned.

Hence why Atzmon and your other heroes are racist even though there's no Jewish race.

joe90 kane said...

Exactly Gert,
the only people I come across who deny there is such a thing as racism are racists.

I've already made the obvious point to Ricard Wilson that just because there is no such thing as 'races' doesn't mean to say there aren't people who think there is, such as Hitler for instance.

I was saying just recently, that there is no scientific research whatsoever undertaken into 'race', and any accredited scientist in the life sciences who tried to would be in big trouble, even those with reputations second to none.
I'm sure you remember this recent news item -
Lab suspends DNA pioneer Watson
BBC
19 Oct 2007


So according to Richard Wilson, zionists aren't racist because there are no such thing as human races and certainly Arabs and Palestinians are races.

I'm sure the victims Wilson claims to be supporting, in former Mandate Palestine, will be relieved to know that they aren't being persecuted and ethnically cleansed by racists.
The Palestinians get the kind of support from Wilson that he gives to his glorious leader Atzmon. Truly clueless.


As to the Irish, they were treated as an inferior seperate race, often refered to as a 'race of savages' and worse. The Irish had to 'earn whiteness' in the words of lenin who runs Lenin's Tomb blog, who has such an endearing facility for simply describing complex ideas and processes.

When it comes to the history of racism, fascism, nazism and western liberalism I can recommend lenin and the Tomb. Brilliant stuff.

Anyways, the abuse of the Irish is about knowing history of which, the morons at the Thick Tank, know next to nothing about.


I do notice Richard Wilson, the impotent male-power tripper who claims he practices non-tribal universal ethics, has given up issuing ultimatii - as each deadline expired he was reduced to threatening to issue another ultimatum - I suppose he'll synthesis another artististic temper tantrum, stamp his feet and scream and scream until he makes himself sick, if he doesn't get what he wants.

ps
all the best for your new blog Gert

REJ GOCH said...

Don't panic Joe. I am not going to 'take the law into my own hands'. I never said that I would. There are perfectly legal options open to me and I am sure if you believed all that nonsense and honestly thought Strathclyde Police would be interested you would have hot-footed it down to your local nick straight away. Your increasingly hysterical tone shows what is really going through your mind. You're too scared to use my real name ( which you know very well ) thinking that your pathetic resort to 'Richard Wilson' will protect you. It doesn't because your use of the name in context is well established and it is perfectly clear who your libellous claims refer to. I am not seeking 'revenge', I just want you to stop libelling me. I would seriously take some legal advice if I were you. It wouldn't cost you much at this stage.
Gert- I haven't rejected the use of the term 'anti-semitism', I merely pointed out its dictionary definition and asked TG and Kane to say exactly what they mean, but I see that that is already enough for you to implicate me in your mind as a 'holocaust denier' and and 'anti-semite' both of which are totally false. You have obviously assimilated the Greenstein method of argument very well. Where did I say that Socialist Unity was a 'party' Joe another product of your fevered imagination? You mustn't get so worked up. You can hardly think rationally when you have your wits about you.

REJ GOCH said...

By the way TG, I didn't give you any definition of racism. I merely asked you to clarify your own thinking of the term which in the context you used it was very confused. Do you really think you are some kind of Marxist? I really haven't seen any evidence of it so far.

Tony Greenstein said...

Err no, you didn't give any definition of racism my dear Goch. In fact what you were saying was that there was no thing as racism, since there is no such thing as races. To be honest I doubt if you'd be up to providing a definition.

Gert said...

REJ GOCH:

"but I see that that is already enough for you to implicate me in your mind as a 'holocaust denier' and and 'anti-semite' both of which are totally false."

Learn to read. I didn't say the anti-Semite and Holocaust denier I referred to was you. I don't know you and I wasn't referring to you. Thank the Lord for small mercies, I guess. You may not be a Holocaust denier but you sure sound like a complete idiot.

REJ GOCH said...

Beautiful! I have said none of the things that you say I have said. After a while I can just stop posting and leave you to it because you have such fertile imaginations and are so good at making things up. At least TG can admit that I have said nothing on the issue of race at all. I've just been questioning the way you think about it. Instead of making things up about me, the idea is that you look at the logic of your own arguments and maybe you'll get something right one day.

REJ GOCH said...

Who gave any deadlines Joe? You give yourself away with your last post not so much a Leninist, but more a follower of Richmal Crompton. I knew I'd seen your style of argument before but I couldn't put my finger on it until, thinking you were being so clever, you let this slip. Will you be around Edinburgh this weekend? We could meet up and continue this discussion face to face. I'll bring some books for you to colour in!

joe90 kane said...

I just want you to stop libelling me. I would seriously take some legal advice if I were you. It wouldn't cost you much at this stage.
- The windbag is still issuing ultimatums!

After his bluff has been called again and again Richard Jones (who I've mistakenly been calling Wilson, such is my interest in this non-entity) or Rej Goch or whatever, is reduced to giving me serious legal advice about my own money.

I'll give Richard Jones-Rej Goch a big hint - shove your reasonableness up your arse.
Your threats don't frighten me at all.
So do what you keep threatening you are going to do to me, you empty male bag of wind.


Inside every hectoring windbag bully there is a coward trying to hide - hence the reason Wilson has now ran away from his threat to take the law into his own hands.

I am sure if you believed all that nonsense and honestly thought Strathclyde Police would be interested you would have hot-footed it down to your local nick straight away.
- I am sure if you weren't such a bully, and therefore a coward, you wouldn't have qualified your original aggressive personal threat against me. Now you claim there are legal ways still open to you - what a pusillanimous bag of wind you are goch.

Neither will Jones specify what it is he's going to do to to me in order to get his own personal revenge for the imagined slight to his own fragile male ego, which itself, seems to involve me claiming Richard Jones supports Atzmon.

What a universal non-tribal ethical person Richard Wilson is, that he now hides like a coward after his bluffs have been called, and threats of police involvement have forced him to eat his words.


The last thing to note about goch nullity is he is now reduced to whinging about the actual words he uses -
- he didn't call Socialist Unity a political party -
- he didn't give a definition for racism -
- he didn't say he'd take the law into his own hands -

How appropriate that Rej rubbish is merely concerned with form rather than intellectual content - surface appearance rather than more meaningful underlying reality.

It doesn't suprise me a balloon from the Thick Tank mistakes a blog, such as Socialist Unity, for a political organisation, as they seem to think their internet hobby represents something meaningful in the real world.

How anyone can mistake Socialist Unity for anything other than a blog is beyond me.
Still, this is revolutionary richard who had to be told by the kind commenteers on TGB that Atzmon and Mary Bizarro ain't Jewish.
And we also have to tell him what it is about Atzmon he is supposed to be supporting - although goch thinks it is actually racially libelious to claim he supports the ideas of his glorious leader Atzmon.

all the best TGB


ps
On goch mistaking Socialist Unity for anything other than a blog -

Mistaking the internet for reality is one of the reasons Atzmon-Bizarro revealed themselves to be so completely out of touch with the vast support the Palestine-BDS commanded. Instead of supporting it, both attacked it, only for the two parasites to jump on the bandwagon later once they realised how successful it was within Palestine solidarity.

Mary Bizarro constantly prattles on about how popular she and Atzmon are, and yet, they hadn't a clue about Palestine-BDS. How could they not know about something as well supported as the Palestine-BDS if they are as well connected and well known as they say they are?

joe90 kane said...

Will you be around Edinburgh this weekend? We could meet up and continue this discussion face to face. I'll bring some books for you to colour in!
- Macho internet hard-man Richard Jones' bluff has been called, again and again, and now wants to meet me face to face.

Macho hard-man Richard Jones now claims he set no deadlines for me - what a coward. He won't even defend his tactic of threating me with ultimatums.
Threatening someone with libel proceedings is to get them to stop what they are doing, but not according to Richard Jones. Libel action means something else entirely. Much like the meaning of antisemitism in goch's fantasy world. Nothing is ever what it seems.

Richard Jones made a threat against me, that he was going to take the law into his own hands. When I threatened him with police action, macho bully-boy and internet hard-man Richard Jones shat his pants. Just like all thicko bullies, he's really just a wimpy wee pathetic coward.

Apparantly, there are other legal means still open to Richard Jones, other than libel proceedings, for him to pursue the imagined and purely fictitious slight to his fragile male ego. Hard-man Jones won't tell what these alternative legal means are, such is the confidence he has in his own abilities and the justice of his case. In other words, he's so cowardly Richard Jones can't even admit he threatened me with something other than the law.

Richard Jones - claims he's a universal, non-tribal, ethical thinker and champion of Atzmon.


Jones claims he's here on TGB to defend Atzmon against smears and slanders. However, bully-boy Jones agrees with me that it is a racist libel to claim he agrees with Atzmon's view that the antisemitic Tsarist forgeries 'The Protocols of the Elders' are true.

So, according to Richard Jones, it isn't a slander or a smear to accuse Atzmon of being an antisemite - presumably then, Richard Jones is defending Atzmon against claims that Atzmon isn't an antisemite.

Indeed Richard Jones even claims
We are both opposed to people who are anti-Jewish...
Rej Goch 15 June 2009 12:03

Unlike Atzmon and Rizzo who are both rabidly anti-Jewish, Richard Jones isn't, but that doesn't stop him from trying to defend them against smears and slanders that they are antisemites.

I could go on.


You would think that, with the thousands who worship at the feet of Mary Bizzaro and the thousands who 'love' Atzmon, or so she claims, then they could come up with better human material to defend them with, than this clueless windbag waffle-merchant who doesn't even know that both these 'outstanding personalities' aren't Jewish.

all the best TGB.

ps
Rej claims it is wrong to use antisemitism when refering to anti-Jewish racism -
The fact that you cling to the belief that 'anti-semitism' refers only to Jews illustrates perfectly your mindset. I pointed out the actual meaning of the term as defined rather than your narrow interpretation, which as usual is tailored to suit your own prejudices.
Rej Goch 11 June 2009 23:13


Rej claims Tony Greenstein is a zionist. Tony's crime is that he uses the dictionary definition of antisemitism -
Greenstein does not understand that just because he says a word has been re-defined that doesn't make it so. It is not pedantry to point out that his re-definition has not been universally accepted or to point out that that re-definition is a politically inspired one tailored to co-incide with certain ideologies and in this case, in particular - Zionism. Isn't it instructive how readily TG finds himself slipping so comfortably into Zionist clothes?
Rej Goch 12 June 2009 11:12

Rej proceeds to confuse the dictionary definitions of antisemitism with Semite -
My first point, Joe Kane, when entering the discussion on your ( and TG's ) misuse of the term 'anti-semitic' was to quote the Oxford English Dictionary...
"Semite

Rej Goch 14 June 2009 10:11